steve lino - Page 4

Getting a dog to a legitamite title is a TEAM effort, my TD and I share in it.  Our helpers are as proud as the handlers, as they should be, they work their asses of for that title too.  If you don't have a good TD, who is often the helper, good luck going anywhere.  Most of the time the reason they spend so much time on the handler is cause the dog doesn't need as much time, they're the smart ones

Very good point zdog :)  I still don't try to claim all of the dogs I've co-taught or coached the owners as my own successes, team effort yes, but I cannot in good concience claim that I trained those dogs.  I am also very proud of my clients when they reach a goal, I celebrate with them, but not for them.

Everyone has a trainer, or someone who helps them train their dogs - does the helperwork, holds the line, lays the tracks - and HELPS.  They should not take credit for TRAINING the dog, but for helping in the training.  Big difference.  I raised/trained/titled all of my dogs from 0 to Schh3 - but couldn't have done any step of it without the help of the trainers and helpers who helped me throughout the process.  None of my trainers could or would take credit for training my dogs, however they could say they were his and my trainers. 

molly

This is really getting kind of nitpicky I think, if you don't think the helpers "train" your dog, only help, do it without their "help" sometime and see how far the training goes.

the person who is holding the leash is the trainer of the dog.  The person who is helping and/or training the handler is the handler's trainer (or helper).  You can't take credit for training/titling the dog unless you do it by holding the leash and doing everything - not just helping.  Not nit-picky at all.  My trainers and helpers definately assist, and definately help ME - but they don't take credit for training my dog.  I'm the trainer unless I send the dog to someone for training, hand the leash over then someone else becomes the trainer.  There is no one in this sport who can do the training completely on their own without help from trainer and helper.  Not the same as that trainer who is helping, taking credit for training the dog.

molly

who teaches the dogs bitework?  Who teaches the dogs to switch drives?  who teaches to unload into the bite?  the timing and teaching that the helper does is every bit as important as the handler.  Sorry, there's lots of people doing just that, hanging on to the end of the leash.  Helpers do Loads of training for other people's dogs, it takes two to tango in this sport, there's no two ways about it, that is if youwant to accomplish much.  I wasn't aware that this person was taking credit for training other people's dogs, but I for one will give my helpers all the credit they deserve in training my dogs, it only seems right.

So  yes, semantics tell me that the handler is the trainer, the helper is the helper.  Reality, the helper is training your dog every time you step out onto practice and train, and he has to worry about the handler and the dog and how to train the both of them at once.  Helpers, take all the credit you want, lord knows there's plenty of people that like to piss on you when something goes wrong.

Molly and zdog

I'm not saying that either one of you is right, but both have valid points.  Molly is an accomplished trainer/handler.  I know she is not someone on the end of the leash.  When I go out on the field, my helper and I talk about what we are going to work on.  I give him instructions.  After we are done with the session, we talk about what WE saw.   Zdog, you are right in the fact that there are alot of people out there on the end of a leash, but not all of them. 

You can't honestly say that the TD goes with you everytime you go tracking.  I know ours isn't at my house, waiting for me to get home from work, so WE can do obedience.

Neither one of you are wrong.  It lies somewhere btween.

All these posts to a simple question, nitpicking is right zdog and few actually answering the original question which was just a simple enquiry.

You Yanks should be proud of a fellow country mans achievements, instead you do what you do best look to to pull them down.

How come so many think you know so much? yet know next to nothing about a past competitor that achieved what most of you would struggle to dream of.

 The man is known  down under (Aus) is still remembered in the homeland of the GSD while most of you if remembered at all will be remembered for you nick names on here and your constant pathetic whimpering.

Mark Hall phone the man, talk dogs you may learn something if you have that rare gift of listening.

Well, Dominik you deserve a big round of applause.  Thank you for giving us "yanks" the spanking we needed.

I train my dogs.  I take them tracking every day - I lay their tracks, I figure out what I'm going to do in obedience, tracking AND protection when I train each phase.  I teach the blinds, I teach the guarding, I work the grips, I switch to another method if one isn't working well for MY dog.  I train on my own 90% of the time, and go to training 1X week to get the protection work, and a second set of eyeballs to HELP with obedience.   If my trainer notices something that needs to be different, then I change it, with his HELP.  I train and title my own dogs, with the HELP - much appreciated, paid for, and credit given for HELP from my trainers and helpers.  I've never said and never will, that I've done everything on my own - except maybe for tracking, which I almost always do on my own - but even then I've learned things from watching others, from judges' critiques at trials - always learning and hopefully improving due to the HELP of others, in MY TRAINING of my dogs.  How I look at it. 

Now, if I gave my dog over to the trainer for 4 weeks, 6 weeks, or however long - for him to teach retrieves for instance, or force-tracking, or whatever - then I am no longer the sole trainer of that dog.  He was trained by me AND someone else, and that credit would be given to the trainer for actually training that dog at least in part.

molly