MSNBC vote on Spay/Neuter - Page 4

The answer to this problem is for buyers & breeders to develop a conscious, & you can't legislate that.  No matter what the breed, the problem lies with those who are breeding dogs that shouldn't be bred.  In our breed specifically, those who are breeding dogs that are not titled and breed surveyed  have no business breeding.  If you don't title & don't have your dogs breed surveyed because you have no access to clubs or shows then you shouldn't be breeding.  It's not as if there is a shortage of good GSD breeders without you.  You are only fooling yourselves if you don't think you are the problem.

sueincc  You are absolutely correct,  it is up to breeders to take more responsibility which of course is what I had suggested,  Now this has nothing to do with me breeding untitled dogs....  don't go off topic,  stay with me here...  If such ordinances existed that people were required to microchip pups, give them vaccinations, not sell or rehome them until minimum age of 8 to 9 weeks, Keep track of who took the pups, and so on,  How many of these irresponsible breeders would stick around,  and just so were clear about "irresponsible breeder".... 

my definition of irresponsible breeder is ...  "My dog got hooked up with the dudes dog down the road and had 9 pups,  I took em to Wal-Mart and gave em away out of a box, when they were 4 weeks old,  now my dog looks like she's a cow her nipples are dragging the ground and have big sores on them that have puss in the sores,  what's up with that ?"  add a ddduuuuhhhhhhhh   to that as you read it you'll get the idea.   Meanwhile the pups he/she gave away at Wal-Mart have been marching through MY door here at the shelter suffering different symptoms, some parvo like, some distemper like, and I've been the one who had to put a needle in them and end they're young lives,   this is a daily occurance for me here,  try it day in and day out and see if your perspective would be a bit different.

That's all I ask of you,  a little understanding for a perspective that is different from your own,  Not asking to agree with it but asking you how you would feel about it if it came at you DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

And those are exactly the type of people that won't be affected by any new law or ordinence because THEY WON"T FOLLOW IT ANYWAY.  It wil only affect those of us TRYING to do things right.  No more laws until existing ones are enforced to the fullest.  I've seen signs posted in our local stores where giving or selling of puppies/kittens on public property (ie. Walmart) is against Washington state law.  No I don't know the RCW right off hand.  Enforce those laws first, don't make more the same people will ignore.

animules 100% agreed !!   very well said.

Well Echo, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  My definition of irresponsible breeder is much different than yours.  I really think if you were responsible you would stop breeding.  The topic was "vote on spay/neuter".   I think it's really hypocritical of you to advocate spay/neuter, yet your dogs are intact AND you breed them.  To me, that's the problem in a nutshell.

Here is a suggestion Echo..just a suggestion...

If you sell your pups as pets...you can have them altered before they go home to their new owners. I think agreeing with politicians on controlling this issue would be the wrong thing to do. So if a breeder feels that strongly...they have the option to do this for the PET they claim to care so much about. It would then be worth the extra money would it not?

All dog owners, breeders or fanciers should have the option. Yes, there are any irresponsible dog owners, but this is not gonna fix it all.

Sueincc,  agree to disagree yes whewww taking a deep breath now,  :-)

Ok that part is over,  Now to address the issue you take with me... Ok I get it you think I should not breed my dogs because they are not titled and KKL.  Ok,  I can appreciate that from you and from any other breeder who does only breed Titled KKL dogs.  What I can not seem to get crammed down my throat without it coming back up is the fact that I seem to be the ONLY one you all freak out for it.  WHY???  gee could it be because I don't hide it,  and I don't lie about it,  and I am open enough to admit that we are working on it ?

You have a valid point,  I just don't beleive that KKL and Titles are the end all... that was a whole nother thread....

But do I beleive that Fluffy the mix breed PET poodle should be being bred with Fido the mix breed PET lab... HE** NO I do not.   I can't stand all the Mistakes that are made because, "We wanted the kids to witness the miracle of birth"   or    " Our dog got out of our yard"   or   "the neighbors dog jumped over the fence"   or   "she had stopped bleeding so I let her out,  next thing I know she's hooked up to this dog on my lawn"  IT KILLED ME when my daughter let her female out the wrong door, (we have 2 back doors) and she got with one of our boys,  Do you know how hard it was to admit to that on this board ??   But I did,  and I have taken he** for it every since,  But guess what it will NOT happen again,  we spayed her !   And the reason I admited to my mistake ??  do you recall that ?  it was to seek the advise from those on this board who could help me to MOST appropriately write a contract that would ensure the pups were all sterilized.  I got some great advise too !   I to this day can respect and appreciate those who sent sincere suggestions.

I guess this whole,  "Echo is bad because she breeds dogs that are not yet KKL and Titled"  might a bit easier to swallow if it applied to everyone.    But that can not be done,  because not everyone here is forthcoming with real identity, email addy's, website and so forth.  There are so many people advertising on this site that DO NOT KKL or Title and NOT one of them is taking the heat that I take.  guess that's what we get for being honest...  Geez the gal who did not even have a brucella pull on her dog did not take the beating I have taken.

Please don't take this as an attack on you,  as I have said I see your side of it, and I do have respect for those who have worked hard to get KKL and Titles done, and adhere to the SV standards for breeding (You forgot to add SV rules above but I knew what you meant)  Someday we will get there too,  Not there yet,  But does not lessen my devotion to the breed to any smaller degree than your own,  simply means you got it done already and I'm still working on it.  It helps that you absolutely beleive in the SV standards regarding KKL and Titles before breeding,  I happen to beleive in the SV standards too but do not agree KKL and Titles are the end all.  Not saying you have to agree with that,  BUT  I know too many people out here not even working toward KKL and Titles to continue to take the BEATING I am taking on a daily basis simply for that LONE reason.  While they stay silent and take NO HITS at all.... That's just my feeling on it.

It does apply to everyone, ask anyone.

Since you are "working on it", why not stop breeding until you accomplish it?  If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.