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by Videx on 29 January 2009 - 12:01
Talk about "A FOOT IN BOTH CAMPS"
It is entirely plausible that some KENNEL CLUB MEMBERS within our breed have been "involved" within the KENNEL CLUB, in "advising and formulating" the KC GSD BREED STANDARD AMENDMENTS. If so, they are hardly likely to want to now argue against them, let alone press for a split between the GSD and the Alsatian.
We have very serious issues within our breed, most particularly with the LEADERSHIP of our major GSD organisations. Those that are not already Kennel Club members, strike me as aspiring to become members.
The "Private Club" culture thrives on sycophants and ingratiation. BEWARE!

by Sue B on 29 January 2009 - 12:01
Not intended to be derogatory, if they want to split the breed then they should not be ashamed of being an Alsatianist, what else would they collectively want to be known as? Any suggestions welcome otherwise what do you want me to call them? Alsatian enthusiasts? Isnt that the same thing?
Hope you dont take this the wrong way either Mo, I realise the importance of going about this the right way, but some of this so called PC (Political Correctness) is way over the top and IMO creates far more problems than it ever solves.
All the best
Sue
by reason on 29 January 2009 - 12:01
That is exactly what i have been saying some have even got a foot in 3 camps
by Penny on 29 January 2009 - 13:01
Hi Sue, I assure you from what I am receiving the Alsatian breeders they are certainly as proud of their style of dog as we are - otherwise they wouldnt be supporting the seperation either (Seperation used not split as this has become an issue whereby some people got mixed up reading the word split and thought that we might split from the KC) sorry !
Yes Sue, see what you say about politically correct, and it can be a pain in the bum, but we need to treat each other very carefully, get to know each other very well - and respect each others views 100% - so if I go a bit over board thinking that some-one would object to Alsatianist, then perhaps I do - but my heart is so into wanting this working, and wanting the two sides to see each others points of view.
My ideal world would be a meeting where we differed in opinion, but liked each other and overlooked the shape of each others dogs.... then we could get on with putting the issue to the Kennel Club - who equally should not be offended, it is not taking from them, but giving them an option to put to rest the vitreol - and pleasing the majority. We will see in the fullness of time if we are pleasing the majority by asking and finding out - and if not, then nothing lost we will be back to square one, as I am not trying to find out to please myself and my neighbour - I am trying to find out for all of us of course, and whatever all of us want has to be agreed to without further ado.
I too dont think that leadership for this move if it gets approval from us all would be good from the leaders currently that are Kennel Club members. This is not me putting either one of them down - and I hope that they remain my good friends when I say that leadership on this issue has to be seen to be totally impartial - totally meaningful and totally united. This cant be if they have any membership with the Kennel Club before the approach which has to be impartial. That is my total reason for putting my two chosen people forward - and others have put others forward too - my choice Mr Brian Wootton - he has total regard for our breed on the German Shepherd side, he is very knowledgeable, and can talk on all levels to all people, and comes across very well and polite. He can also, if necessary speak with the SV without doubt, and is well thought of in those circles too. He will not be long telling me if he is not in favour of this suggestion when I write to him, and he will be very honest about it- this is what we need. Mr John McLain, I have put as my suggestion for the Alsatian type, as I have met him, joked and laughed with him,and found him to be totally above this terrible snide attitude that we have had from both sides regarding types. He is personable, well mannered and to take a motion to the Kennel Club, I feel wouldnt bother him or waver his nerves I may be wrong, as I dont know him well, but I would love some other folk to suggest a leader for the Alsatian group, as I dont know so many as well as you do. I also as with Brian, dont know if he is even in agreement yet - thats a hurdle for me to get over by this week-end. anyone with Johns Tele No could privately mail me please. I have emailed Roy B randon, as yet havent heard back, but it was ony 48 hrs ago he`s perhaps more sensoible than I and doesnt "live" on his computer. His tele No privately would be good if anyone can let me have it. Mo
by georgehopwood on 29 January 2009 - 13:01
We should all be very seriously concerned about KENNEL CLUB MEMBERS being part of any committee representing our breed in discussions with the KENNEL CLUB.
Talk about "A FOOT IN BOTH CAMPS"
It is entirely plausible that some KENNEL CLUB MEMBERS within our breed have been "involved" within the KENNEL CLUB, in "advising and formulating" the KC GSD BREED STANDARD AMENDMENTS. If so, they are hardly likely to want to now argue against them, let alone press for a split between the GSD and the Alsatian.
David that is a load of nonsence and you know it, made me smile tho
the fact is that without the public "members of the Kennel Club" dog breeding would not exsist, its the public that keep breeders afloat and as far as I'm concerned the public should be treated with more respect and looked after by the breeders than we "Joe Public" are getting !.
What would happen to all the excess puppies that breeders do not retain for breeding or showing without the public to buy them all ?I get so annoyed about this. The health issues are a nightmare and way out of control especially where Epilepsy etc,etc,etc is concerned. Even when certain breeders have been told by more knowledgeable breeders that they are breeding from known epileptic lines they just bury their heads and carry on breeding from the same stock without a care about the poor dogs and the trauma the owners go through seeing their beloved pets suffer !.
and lol "us the joe public" have to trust you on this spilt

by Videx on 29 January 2009 - 13:01

by Sue B on 29 January 2009 - 13:01
Over the years I have spoken many times with John McLain and agree with you in that he is every inch a gentleman and I too have much time for him. We have even had a mutual respect at one point for each others breeding, but heres not the place to go into that.
Although I do not agree with the type Mr Roy Brandon likes, I have also found him to be a very polite man , although his opinion of me may not be quite as complimentary, for as you or indeed anyone else knows who knows me, I can and do get very loud in my protective passion for this breed and where I will apologise for my loudness that I certainly will not apologise for my passion, even if at times it perhaps is over protective.
When Len and Gill Rathjen left our breed we lost two more very polite and lovely people. I remember the time that Lens dog took the Dog CC at Manchester when Ch Nacale took the Bitch CC and both were sent around the ring for BOB of which the Referee who at the time was Vera Hutchinson had to judge. There were those around the ring prepared to slate the bitch and others who slated the dog, this was the first time Len and I had ever met each other but both of us congratulated the other and neither was derogatory of each others animal.
Always with that experience in mind and until very recently I have always advocated the breed NOT BE SPLIT or as you are probably right to prefer SEPERATED, but unfortunately time has neither made us more tollerant of each other nor brought us closer together and so it is in the interests of both sides that I have now sided with the idea of seperation being the best way forward. For I would much rather meet Roy and John et others at a show or on the street and stop to have a friendly chat than have it the way it is now and believe it or not I am being absolutely sincere about that.
I have no personal gripe with Roy, I do not hate him, as a person I would probably like him, it is our differences in what we like that keep us seperate on opposing sides, let us seperate the breed into two different types and we will have no need to squabble and can all be friends.
Live and Let Live in Peace is all I ask for.
As for what I think of Brian Wooton goes without question, he is for me the ONLY person to represent us, it was our club who put him forward for the KC Breed Laison officer many years ago and was I who made much to do when I noticed his name was not on the KC website along with other Breed Laison Officers, IMO he should BE THE ONE TO ATTEND EVERY MEETING WITH THE KENNEL CLUB WITHOUT RESERVATION, he should not need an individual invitation, the BC Sec should not be asking the KC 'IF' he can attend the meeting with them, he should go automatically simply because HE IS THE ONLY PERSON VOTED FOR BY THE CLUBS TO LAISE FOR AND REPRESENT THIS BREED AT THE KC.... END OF.....
Regards
Sue
by paulie on 29 January 2009 - 13:01
I did say that i would'nt be making any more comments on this particular thread, but we seem to be going round in circles. There has been 6022 viewings and 329 posts on this thread, and we are no nearer any tangible solution. The KC observers, which i'm sure there are reading the comments made on this thread, must be smiling quietly to themselves. IF you go back to my first posting on the 19th Jan. you will see that what i wrote then ,still applies. TAKE A MANDATE FROM YOUR CLUB TO THE BREED COUNCIL, AND MAKE SURE IT IS PLACED ON THE AGENDA. If enough clubs agree on a proposal, demand that they take it to the KC. and if they prevaricate then call an extraordinary general meeting, with a vote of no confidence as the only item on the agenda. This one single action will tell us who's with us, and who is'nt.
Regards as ever Paul.
by georgehopwood on 29 January 2009 - 14:01
by Penny on 29 January 2009 - 14:01
All being processed to get to the club secretaries Paul - can I "copy" your posting above, and send it out - its clear as clear, sounds posh and is better than I can come up with
Georgehopwood - sorry I didnt understand your posting either ?? Did u understand what Videx was suggesting, it wasnt about Joe P ?? Mo
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