The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 33

Thank you GSDstudent for caring to answer.

Not really, I want to learn, and frankly speaking I hear show breeders discussing shortcomings of the show GSD while work breeders decline to discuss shortcomings of the work GSD (structure & temperament), that is why I asked.

Ibrahim, this is not allowed to be SL vs WL, but I know that I did say plenty of WL dogs get run off the training field. And I also said some WL breeders are selecting dogs to compete in the conformation ring,...that is not improvement. Over all, it is not difficult to find structurally sound, athletic WL gsd. There are enough correct WL gsd capable of work to not have to go into a panic...it's a matter of selection.

Both populations have problems.

SL= dogs are to big and heavy, extreme structure that is bad for the dog. Show me one showdog that is fast and is a good jumper. You will not find one ! The temperament is also bad; we see a lot af dogs that are shy, not stable....

There are SL dogs with strong temperament but the majority not. Also no different bloodlines, no genetic differences in the population.

 

WL= Problems here are that some want to create a workingdog with the extreme structure of the Showdog, this is not possible because working is not possible with SL structure. Problems in temperament are sometimes hectic drive and dogs that lack seriousness because of the breeding for sport only.

 

Both groups should focus on breed a better dog (and a lot of breeders are doing well).

 

But to better the SL dogs there must be some input from WL. Because of the fact that all SL dogs are basically the same you can not breed something else. They can only produce the same type.

In the topic about Walter Martin he said two important things.

1) use a dog with 25% different blood

2) every third generation use a "crazy" dog (meaning very strong dog).

 

Showbreeders should do that. Most don't but i found some dogs that are breed like that. look at these dogs for example. (don't know them personally)

 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=678266-zinthia-vom-arnsberger-klosterberg

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=641622-olga-de-intercanina

 

25% different blood with the very, very strong Uno vom Stadtfeld (who brings in the Marco Cellerland blood)

IMHO this is the way forward for SL, if they also focus on a slightly smaller, more agile dog things would improve a lot.

Thank you Joanro for answering. My intention is not Wl vs Show line, honestly. Topic is GSD decline, i.e work and show, show always gets more focus in this respect, so it is only logical to hear opinions on shortcomings of the work type and see what people think.

What bothers me Joanro is the generalities Work GSD supporters talk about structure, I don't get it, they say structure of a working dog, what structure is that exactly????????

GSD is a trotter, isn't it? its structure is designed accordingly, right? Do we agree GSD is a trotter or not? GSD is a versatile dog, right? do we agree on this? if it is versatlile, that means it is not a single specialty dog of any specific sort of work but should be capable of doing various jobs to very good and satisfactory level.

P.S: corrected some words for clear language purpose

"for SL, if they also focus on a slightly smaller, more agile dog things would improve a lot."

 

would they improve their placing in the show ring? - serious question.

Heart of gold, though I differ on minor points of your view, but I heartily appreciate your honesty and logic

@VK4gsd.

No it would not improve their placing in the show ring.

Only the judges can make a difference here; if they would choose slightly smaller dogs most breeders would follow that trend. The judges are the bosses, they decide the direction the breed is going !

 

I've trained for years in a Showline club.

I've seen all that showline dogs having problems with their structure, for example even to jump in and out of the car was a problem when they were a little older.

I've seen dogs with good character that could not get their SCH 3 because they could not take the 1 m (!) jump.

They always talk about how good there dogs are build, but if a workingdog can not make a litle jump of 1m...i don't think their structure is so amazing.

Heart of Gold,

 

To make my personal stand clear, I do not wish work breeders to breed overangulated rears nor roached backs nor over size dogs. I would love them to breed dogs as close as possible to this conformation.

 

To all viewers

Can any one suggest a better structure for the work GSD?

Please note those above angulations are the standard, not today's trend of some show VAs.

What objection do you have to this structure? And how does it negatively affect a SAR or LE or Detection dog?

I totally agree with the angles/angulations, although such  ´thick´ bones shouldn`t be necessary. Of course not all dogs can ever meet standard, but if at an earlier stage the height by standard would have been taken more seriously the amount of oversized dogs would be significantly lower. For a standard to be enforced properly one would have to take many shadow pictures of the standing from side perspective and match them to this. This could also make shows significantly fairer. In terms of pigmentation the opinions have a wide range...

@Ibrahim.

 

I don't have any problem with the picture you posted. Most WL dogs have more or less such a structure.

Problem is that all the SL dogs have a different structure than that picture !

So the judges are putting dogs on the first place that are not conform the standard !!!

If you go to a show with a dog with the structure of that picture...you will be last.

If you have a oversized, overangulated dog (sometimes even painted red) you run first.