The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 32

"I was not going to comment again here but as it is going off topic again I would like to ask a question. For all of those who liked to see videos why is it that we never see a video of a dog that is working at any discipline other than the bite work?

By the way Haz you never responded to my question which was regarding "how tight is tight for you in linebreeding?. I asked this question because you said that you were thinking of buying a male or female with tight inbreeding. I do not want the readers to think that you have dodged this one. I expect that it was an oversight on your part.

This definitely my last post here.

Mackenzie"

 

What are you talking about?  I can find video of WL dogs doing everything from scentwork, obedience, and bitework to kissing babies. I should not have to explain to you why bite work is so important and what it shows about a dogs character.  You breed these dogs, if your dogs were incapable of GOOD bitework they should have been fixed and given to the pet homes they belong in.

Get off the hook?  I did not think I had to specify how tight I like to see breeding in a dogs pedigree.  Here are some big names that have decent line breeding in their peds, good examples of what I like.

 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=127683-ufo-van-guys-hof

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=129038-orla-von-der-schiffslache

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=322208-tyson-von-der-schiffslache

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=466041-mambo-z-pohranicni-straze

 

 Do I have to explain why line breeding is benificial and why I might want to have it in my dogs? Thats how you fix type, concentrate certain traits and obtain prepotent breeding stock.

I would take a pup from a half sibling breeding or a father to daughter if the individuals and their peds matched up.

Here is the sire to my current prospect, one of the reasons he was selected was the line breeding from the sire's side.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1842545-otis-vom-ron

"For all of those who liked to see videos why is it that we never see a video of a dog that is working at any discipline other than the bite work?"

 

i don't  think Mack gave this comment a lot of thought before posting.

No perhaps he didn't - it is true that the majority of video posted

is about bite'n'bark -  with notable exceptions  (Fozzy;  Margaret

& Ulf).  But then, watching a dog do a Long Down is about as

exciting for most people as watching paint dry.  For me and others

with that degree of interest, there are nuances in canine body language

that would keep our attention, but I am sure that is not true of a lot of

people even those actually training and competing with their own dogs.

Watching Fero's attitude 'going through the motions' when he 'searched' all

4 blinds in the vid above, for example, was fascinating !

 

I believe Duke made a telling point in his post where he said " look past the podium dogs" ...

Trouble is people who think they can throw money at the top studs

are often disappointed when getting them home only to discover

they do not get good work out of them - could that be the handler's

fault ? - or that they do not produce great offspring - does Yogi have

a point about what bitches they get bred to ? - and yet it is all the

fault of the breed, its decrease in quality, the things that are wrong

with the SVs training / judging systems ...

Meh !  I know they aren't perfect;  just saying, the scenario

is less bad than many want it painted !

 

PS  Haz:  it is fascinating that you are so psychic that, while knowing

so very little about me & my life, you have concluded that I am

suckered by the "public" image of the Police Dog ...

 

Haz - You said in one of your earlier posts “I will be looking for a tight line bred dog in the next few months male or female” - that was on page 21.  You have not really made your answer clear regarding how tight is tight for you. I did not ask you to give a list of what you like.

To help you here is a list of the inbreed on the dogs that you do like

Ufo v Guy’s Hof Inbreed 3, 5 In 5 generations on Greif v Lahntal . Alfred Hahn’s main stud dog at one time. Also showline used with 5 generations.

Orla v d Schiffslache Inbreed 4-3 on Harro a d Lechrainstadt with all the other inbred dogs appearing in the 4^th and 5^th generation including showline dogs

Tyson v d Schiffslache In breed 5,5,-3 on Afra v StoppenberLand and 5-3 on Harro v Lechrainstadt with showline blood within 5 Generations

Mambo z Pohranicni Inbreed 4 - 3 on Kaso z Pohranicni and 5-4 on Ema z Pohranicni and 5-4 on Iwo v d Bushecke

Otis v Ron Inbreed 3-2 on Puci Jipo-Me and 4-3 on Norbo Ben-Ju and 5-4 on Chuna Policia and 5-4 on Car z Kostolianskej Cesty and 4-3 on Alex xx Pisnicky and 5-4,4 on Baro v Kuhlen Norden and 5-5 on Cordon An-Sat

Is this what you mean by tight inbreeding ?

When I said in an earlier post that “I have never inbred any closed than 4,5 - 0,0.” page 27 your response was “I am glad you did a 4-5 it must have been scary.. :-). My comments were simply that people who breed these dogs and have attitudes and a knowledge base similar to yours will continue to cause a decline in these dogs' workability. Page 33

Now, it seems to me and it will to other readers, that what I have been doing is very similar to the inbreed that you so admire in the dogs that you like. So now who knows what? 

As for the current dog that you do like then in terms of attention to the anatomy he is a long way behind many of the dogs breeding in your examples

The videos are not so important but it may be interesting to newbies. Everyone knows where to find the videos.

Mackenzie

Re: why few post videos of GSD doing anything other than IPO - most PDB members don't think OB is worth watching and that any dog can do it without a lot of training.

Newbies Blitzen so that they can see there is more to work than biting.

Mackenzie

I believe this is an important thread. It has evolved from a request for breeders to be more involved with their charges. It is a humane request. It is an intelligent request. It is necessary to have a bond with dogs to see the extremely important part of the standard, CHARACTER. From the AKC standard, there are 2 serious faults [ read it] faults of gait and faults of character. A roach back is a fault, but so is a straight back, a long back, or a short back.  I look a the ped that Haz likes and if I were to react to each ped only from what I had heard from experienced breeders I would need to throw out 3 out of the 5 peds because top people told me to. Breeders must be involved with the breed way past shows, trials, and peds. Training to a high level is the best method. 

I asked this question and got no answers so far

 

Haz, and all friends who own, train or breed work line GSDs

Do you think the work line GSD needs improvement? Whether in anatomy or temperament

If yes please mention in what areas

if no then please answer one more question for me,

Do you think specified anatomy proportions and angulations in the standard are wrong and useless for a working GSD?

 

Other than Gustav, no one of you, posters and rearers mentioned what shortcoming you think the work GSD of today has !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that lack of courage, info or care?

 

Ibrahim

 

^ more a case of a poorly constructed question, lends itself to emotional generalisations.

 

it only makes sense to look at an individual dog or a particular trend in a producer or heavily line bred family and honestly and intteligently observe what the strengths and weaknesses are;  given the dog is assessed fairly by a comptenetent person over a full range of criteria.

 

the rest is BS.

 

 

Ibrahim; Every breeder needs to pay attention to their stock. Both structurely and character wise. When the perfect specimen is made,  we can just clone it for as many people as needed. In my time with the GSD , I believe the WL have improved in structure. I can not say the same for the SL. The only game in town was the AKC conformation ring and OB when I got started. There was also police training [ closed to outsiders]  and personal Protection going on. I got involved with what i could. I went the way of IPO/ Shutzhund early and found the german bred dogs to my liking. I am certain that training is much better now. I think that on a global level, if not national level, there are more LE dogs than ever. Some how there is a supply available for the most important GSD in the world, the detection dog. Other breeds excel at this job also. I know for certain that most LE trainers stay away from the SL both American and German . It is a learned prejudice. The biggest short coming to the working dog lines is there are not enough top dogs and the percentage in each litter is not high enough. Now is that the'' can of worms'' you want to open?