The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 30

Just as a follow up on my last post " we don't agree ............"

We can still learn from each other, thank you Duke for the info in your last post

Let me offer my observations as a fairly new advocate of the GSD, but with a long history of working dogs. When I read the different breed standards of the GSD wheather it be the German, Britan, Canadian, American, I see the emphasis on balance, not heavy angulation. When I look back at the shepherd dog that made up the basis of this breed I see balanced dogs that resemble the coyote and the wolf, which are masters of the trot, more than the modern show dog. I believe the shepherd dog was chosen as the starting point because  it has economy of movement and has the trainability factor which makes it easy to work with. From there selection for other qualities were made.

The modern show gait is not a natural gait, and is not a endurance gait. Some times we mistakenly think smooth is the same as endurance, it is not. A good example is the Walking horse. A very nice ride wherever you want to go. When they put them into a racking gait in the show arena they look smoth as glass, but after a couple laps around the ring they are drenched in sweat.

The GSD show gait is a man made gate. I believe to set that group of animals apart from other groups of animals. Nothing wrong with that if that is your main goal, but placing your primary objective on a man made gate discourages all other qualities.

If we are looking for an endurance gate we look to balance first. The trot is the most efficient ground covering gait and a slow trot is about 5 mph, a quick trot is about 8 to 10 mph, and a fast trot is 10 to 14 mph. If we want to check the efficiency or endurance of the trot, condition your dog and then take him out and trot him for 20 miles. This is done by many animals every day just in their course of life. If your dog can do this in about 2 hours, I bet it looks more like a working line dog than a show line dog.

The origional theme is decline of GSD character and I believe that character is what makes the GSD what it was intended for. If we put the majority of our emphasis on a man made gait, we can't help but loose the main qualities that made the GSD probably the best all round dog in the world.

Everyone, have a good day.

For me it's much more informative to discuss the pros and cons of specific dogs as Duke has done than to speak in general terms.

Good day to you too Powerflex, lot of observations to think of and make further study

Straight dogs are no good for endurance either unless they are intended for draft and worked at a slow pace; a power walk. There has to be a happy medium with the GSD and until that happens, if ever, this discussion will continue ad nauseum. Dog breeders always take everything to the extreme, but they rarely recognize their own mistakes, only those of otheir peers. 

"For me it's much more informative to discuss the pros and cons of specific dogs as Duke has done than to speak in general terms.". This always becomes a big fight, because how about all the individuals with the dog being discussed in their dog's ped. Remember how the "discussion" got about Bomber?
Besides, one individual dog cannot represent the entire breed, not even Lance is entirely to blame for it's decline in temperament.

Sunsilver

If all one wants is sport dogs to trial and do not care about all of the over the top prey drive issues and are not looking for balanced versatile breed, I would say a great job has been done by line breeding on Fero. But if we want dogs that work in real life in real homes with real children and real families and not in a kennel, they done a shit job. If everyone will look at the big picture of the GSD, he/she is not the best at any one anything, BUT is the best at doing a little of everything. With that being said, within a breeding program one should find a mix of talent, PD, MIL, family protection, personal protection and yes just some good ol pets.  I have read SCH rule books for 35 years and it says nothing like what is required of the trial field. IT HAS BECOME A SPORT OR GAME, IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A BREED WORTHINESS TEST.

I own, train and breed hard, nasty, aggressive, civil, man stopping German Shepherds for two reasons. (Not crazy uncontrollable nut jobs) 1) I use them in my business 2) we need to put all of that back into our weak zero balanced dogs. I am not looking for litters of "man killers" I am working toward a balanced breed once again.

Neuter or spay everything that does not better the breed.

 

Paul

Paul Garrison - when you talk about Fero please remember that your comments relate only t,o the USA.  Your comments about the type of dogs that you breed is one thing but savagry breeds more savage dogs.  It has been tried before.  What you think you need for your business is not necessarily going to solve the problem in tha breed as a whole.  

Mackenzie

Mackenzie

"Paul Garrison - when you talk about Fero please remember that your comments relate only t,o the USA." Not true at all.

If you only breed toward the middle, then the middle is the best you are going to get, and more and more weak. All of the traits that are missing have to be put back in. But if all you want is pets hold on tight to that thought.

My type of dog is a very small but important part of the GSD as a whole, but so is the pet type.

 

 

I´m with Duke about this matter - my direct memory goes back to the early seventies ( born in 1963, my first trial as a handler in 1978 ).
The German Shepherd dog breed as a whole was not at all better than today ( I can talk for Germany only ). A lot of weak, unhealthy, dogs out there.
And in case I believe my grandfather ( born in 1901 - owned and handled working dogs his whole life ) the dogs in earlier times were not better, but worse.
The main difference: The handlers didn´t train these dogs, but gave them away or killed them.
The grips - a nightmare / the character - everything between great and horrible / health - a lot of dogs were not able to train ( HD was highly present, but nobody was able to x-ray, and a lot of dogs had problems in the back ).
The training skills within the clubs changed tremandously during the decades, in former times only a good dog was able to "survive" the training, nowadays, using modern philosophy, almost every dog is able to title at least on club level.
One time IPO1, one time IPO2, one time IPO3, all of them on club level, doesn´t say much about a dog. Simply because we have far better handlers, helpers, equipment, knowledge....

Memories are funny - in our memories things were bigger in our childhood, and dogs were more dangerous and more serious than they are in reality.
We were impressed by the "big, fierce looking dog", bigger in size than ourselves, the dark bark sounded THAT dangerous - but this is not reality...