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by DDR-DSH on 12 March 2010 - 16:03
Many years ago, there was a big blowup in Germany over a GSD male that killed a child. It was all in Stern magazine, which is / was big at that time. The child was very small.. 5 or under, and went (unwatched) into the dog's kennel. Easy to understand the reasons it could have happened, if you know dogs.. territorial drive, etc. But, the public doesn't understand dogs very well, so it's easy to sensationalize something like this.
Also many years ago, I got messed up pretty bad by a GSD male named Ufo vom Fiemereck. I was crazy to buy that dog. He'd already put several people in the hospital, some with serious damage (disability, disfigurement). Well, the things I didn't know about dogs got largely filled in by Ufo. Let me tell, you, also, that I got my licks in and survived the attack.. Then went back later and kicked his ass with such excellence, that he knew he'd seen his Waterloo. From then on, he lived by MY rules, and he behaved. Come to find out that there was a crazy streak running pretty wide in that particular bloodline, and this came to be pretty well known. The bloodline was pretty much abandoned by Martin Steffen, even though it had brought him a lot of success in the show ring. Whatever remains of it is VERY diluted and buried in pedigrees, by now. I did have pups from Ufo and they were mad as a hatter, by the way. They did some really crazy, feral stuff.. in Ufo's case, the problem feral behavior was extreme social behavior, on the alpha side of the scale.
Anyone who trains dogs and really knows what's happening in their heads knows that they can switch drives really fast, and they "throw" behaviors (see Karen Pryor). So, lots of things can happen and the average person has no idea why the dog did what it did, nor what to expect of it. People see dogs as "furkids", and expect them to behave rationally and morally. Konrad Most said that by placing the dog into the realm of moral expectations, that we do him the greatest disservice. We set dogs up to fail, so we should not wonder when they do fail. A dog cannot truly understand the concepts of right vs wrong, or what we want, or why we want it. Owning a dog is a lot like having a two or three year old child. We have to constantly work to keep them out of trouble.
The whole thing with Pit Bulls is the immense popularity of the breed with the least responsible people. They are the dog of choice for wannabe and real thugs, dope dealers and just general dysfunctional people. Their numbers are huge, and that right there tells you that the odds are against their reputation, statistically.
The other strike that Pit Bulls have against them is their long history of breeding as a butcher's dog and later a pit fighter.. giving them tremendous grip and gameness, as well as physical strength. A bite is often a bite and hold, along with shaking, which can cause tremendous physical damage to the human victim. To a bull, with a tough hide, this would be sustainable, and we would praise the dog for hanging on while the bull tosses him in the air, giving the owner a chance to escape the bull. There is a video showing just such an encounter on YouTube, and the dog was a hero.. probably saved a man from death or serious injury.
This is a great breed of dog with the odds tragically stacked against them. If it weren't for the huge popularity with responsible owners (who fight like hell to protect them), they would be doomed by rounds of yellow press journalism and legislative efforts to eradicate them.
Also many years ago, I got messed up pretty bad by a GSD male named Ufo vom Fiemereck. I was crazy to buy that dog. He'd already put several people in the hospital, some with serious damage (disability, disfigurement). Well, the things I didn't know about dogs got largely filled in by Ufo. Let me tell, you, also, that I got my licks in and survived the attack.. Then went back later and kicked his ass with such excellence, that he knew he'd seen his Waterloo. From then on, he lived by MY rules, and he behaved. Come to find out that there was a crazy streak running pretty wide in that particular bloodline, and this came to be pretty well known. The bloodline was pretty much abandoned by Martin Steffen, even though it had brought him a lot of success in the show ring. Whatever remains of it is VERY diluted and buried in pedigrees, by now. I did have pups from Ufo and they were mad as a hatter, by the way. They did some really crazy, feral stuff.. in Ufo's case, the problem feral behavior was extreme social behavior, on the alpha side of the scale.
Anyone who trains dogs and really knows what's happening in their heads knows that they can switch drives really fast, and they "throw" behaviors (see Karen Pryor). So, lots of things can happen and the average person has no idea why the dog did what it did, nor what to expect of it. People see dogs as "furkids", and expect them to behave rationally and morally. Konrad Most said that by placing the dog into the realm of moral expectations, that we do him the greatest disservice. We set dogs up to fail, so we should not wonder when they do fail. A dog cannot truly understand the concepts of right vs wrong, or what we want, or why we want it. Owning a dog is a lot like having a two or three year old child. We have to constantly work to keep them out of trouble.
The whole thing with Pit Bulls is the immense popularity of the breed with the least responsible people. They are the dog of choice for wannabe and real thugs, dope dealers and just general dysfunctional people. Their numbers are huge, and that right there tells you that the odds are against their reputation, statistically.
The other strike that Pit Bulls have against them is their long history of breeding as a butcher's dog and later a pit fighter.. giving them tremendous grip and gameness, as well as physical strength. A bite is often a bite and hold, along with shaking, which can cause tremendous physical damage to the human victim. To a bull, with a tough hide, this would be sustainable, and we would praise the dog for hanging on while the bull tosses him in the air, giving the owner a chance to escape the bull. There is a video showing just such an encounter on YouTube, and the dog was a hero.. probably saved a man from death or serious injury.
This is a great breed of dog with the odds tragically stacked against them. If it weren't for the huge popularity with responsible owners (who fight like hell to protect them), they would be doomed by rounds of yellow press journalism and legislative efforts to eradicate them.
by Abhay on 12 March 2010 - 17:03
Below is a pic of Steve1's sister and the Pit Bull Puppy they raised. Steve said, his sister was about 16 in the pic. Steve also told me the puppy was born in 1952, and that's the year I was born as well.
by CrysBuck25 on 12 March 2010 - 18:03
Abhay, that dog looked a little different from most of what I see today.
With regards to my earlier compliments, it's a known fact that such inbreeding is not a good thing...As you said, in the hands of people who are knowledgeable, it can create good dogs, but in the hands of the wrong people, it destroys a breed. I believe that is true. And yes, I haven't found incest (inbreeding) to be overly beneficial in humans. One guy that my husband went to school with is mentally handicapped, and is one of six children resulting from a brother and sister relationship. Four of those six children are mentally deficient..Only two are halfway normal.
I realize dogs have no morals...Unfortunately, too many people don't either. Inbreeding is used a lot, and I think it's detrimental in too many cases. But I guess what separates the good from the bad is the breeder being willing to assess the product of such matings and choose which animals best give him what he looks for, and putting the rest six feet under, rather than selling them to some fool that needs a bulldog to feel like a man. There are a lot of folks I know that have kids, and Pits...And it works out wonderfully for them. But ninety percent of the people who have them, shouldn't. And that's the bottom line.
Duval? You are hard to follow, as far as I can tell. Some of your posts seem leaned one way, others have no direction at all. Some are just downright sarcastic. So if you could please keep your messages on an even keel and lay off the sarcasm, it would be appreciated. You like Pits, or not? You like the better quality, or the puppy mill variety? Do you actually hunt with them, or just run them in a pen? Your buddy, I mean...Seems like you prefer to let your GSD do the killing. Which is your choice, I guess.
To me the bottom line is that if a guy feels like a bigger man with a Pit, then he's got one for the wrong reasons. If your dog is a friend, a tool, and does his job, gets love and good care from you, and you truly understand his nature, then you might have one for the right reasons. I suppose it's that way with all dogs...
I'm out of here...
Crys
With regards to my earlier compliments, it's a known fact that such inbreeding is not a good thing...As you said, in the hands of people who are knowledgeable, it can create good dogs, but in the hands of the wrong people, it destroys a breed. I believe that is true. And yes, I haven't found incest (inbreeding) to be overly beneficial in humans. One guy that my husband went to school with is mentally handicapped, and is one of six children resulting from a brother and sister relationship. Four of those six children are mentally deficient..Only two are halfway normal.
I realize dogs have no morals...Unfortunately, too many people don't either. Inbreeding is used a lot, and I think it's detrimental in too many cases. But I guess what separates the good from the bad is the breeder being willing to assess the product of such matings and choose which animals best give him what he looks for, and putting the rest six feet under, rather than selling them to some fool that needs a bulldog to feel like a man. There are a lot of folks I know that have kids, and Pits...And it works out wonderfully for them. But ninety percent of the people who have them, shouldn't. And that's the bottom line.
Duval? You are hard to follow, as far as I can tell. Some of your posts seem leaned one way, others have no direction at all. Some are just downright sarcastic. So if you could please keep your messages on an even keel and lay off the sarcasm, it would be appreciated. You like Pits, or not? You like the better quality, or the puppy mill variety? Do you actually hunt with them, or just run them in a pen? Your buddy, I mean...Seems like you prefer to let your GSD do the killing. Which is your choice, I guess.
To me the bottom line is that if a guy feels like a bigger man with a Pit, then he's got one for the wrong reasons. If your dog is a friend, a tool, and does his job, gets love and good care from you, and you truly understand his nature, then you might have one for the right reasons. I suppose it's that way with all dogs...
I'm out of here...
Crys
by VomRuiz on 12 March 2010 - 19:03
DDR- DSH,
Excellent post! Thank you for sharing!
Abhay,
That is a great picture and a VERY cute puppy....
Stacy
Excellent post! Thank you for sharing!
Abhay,
That is a great picture and a VERY cute puppy....
Stacy
by LAVK-9 on 12 March 2010 - 20:03
I'm not a kid , just to clear the airways. And yes pits are the number one dog to track, catch and tack a hog down. Most of the people on this thread are Yankee's and prolly sit at home all winter long posting IGNORANT stuff on this website.
O Ya, My female GSD rabbit hunts and has KILLED over 200+ rabbits
Are you freakin kidding me!!!! IN your words EPIC FAIL x10!!!!!! Do you not read? Can you read? Pits aren't the #1 dogs to track!!!! IT IS CALLED A CUR OR HOUND DOG..say it with me H-O-U-N-D dog.They are the ones that track. As for being a Yankee....that has nothing to do with anything.My friend that hog hunts is from the north but he can run circles around your dumb ass about hog hunting or any other hunting. I may not hog hunt...but I know dogs and sorry sparky but PITS aren't made to track! Read about the breed. Sucks that I have a cure for stupidity but it isn't legal.
This is better than MAD TV or Saturday Night Live!
I have to disagree with you there.At least MAD TV and SNL they were acting dumb in skits...duval isn't acting!!!
O Ya, My female GSD rabbit hunts and has KILLED over 200+ rabbits
Are you freakin kidding me!!!! IN your words EPIC FAIL x10!!!!!! Do you not read? Can you read? Pits aren't the #1 dogs to track!!!! IT IS CALLED A CUR OR HOUND DOG..say it with me H-O-U-N-D dog.They are the ones that track. As for being a Yankee....that has nothing to do with anything.My friend that hog hunts is from the north but he can run circles around your dumb ass about hog hunting or any other hunting. I may not hog hunt...but I know dogs and sorry sparky but PITS aren't made to track! Read about the breed. Sucks that I have a cure for stupidity but it isn't legal.
This is better than MAD TV or Saturday Night Live!
I have to disagree with you there.At least MAD TV and SNL they were acting dumb in skits...duval isn't acting!!!
by DuvalGSD on 12 March 2010 - 21:03
JENNI78,
DOES YOUR HUSBAND KNOW YOUR ON YOUR KNEES ALL DAY, WORKING FOR TIPS...................................
DOES YOUR HUSBAND KNOW YOUR ON YOUR KNEES ALL DAY, WORKING FOR TIPS...................................
by steve1 on 12 March 2010 - 21:03
The Photo above posted by Abhay is one of my older sister Florrie with Pup Tiny, She was 16 years old then and it was taken in 1952, At the time i was 12 years old and this dog used to pull the kids around the block towing us along in a harness fixed to a wooden Cart, He loved it
He used to follow Dad and when Dad turned round to tell him off he used to drop to the ground and flatten himself against the pavement front legs stretched out his back legs the other way with his head flat on the ground This i taught him to do at a very young age
My Dad could never understand why as soon as he turned round the Dog would drop to the ground as if he could not be seen, I never did tell him that it was my doing
Yes, he was a very good dog indeed i do not say he was a true bred Pit but he looked like one but a little bigger i think he had a bit of Lab in him along the line I still think of the Old Lad at times i guess we do on all the dogs we have lost through time, But he was a really gentle Dog without any bad in him at all
I have said it before a Dog is what you bring it up to be, it is how you treat it, how you feed it and how you train it.
There is nothing easier than to train a Dog to be vicious, and on the other hand there is nothing hard in training a Dog to be a good Sociable Animal and still not losing any fire in its belly that it has inherited, Everything a Dog is, is in the hands of the Owner handler no one else we are responsible for what the Dogs become
Steve1
He used to follow Dad and when Dad turned round to tell him off he used to drop to the ground and flatten himself against the pavement front legs stretched out his back legs the other way with his head flat on the ground This i taught him to do at a very young age
My Dad could never understand why as soon as he turned round the Dog would drop to the ground as if he could not be seen, I never did tell him that it was my doing
Yes, he was a very good dog indeed i do not say he was a true bred Pit but he looked like one but a little bigger i think he had a bit of Lab in him along the line I still think of the Old Lad at times i guess we do on all the dogs we have lost through time, But he was a really gentle Dog without any bad in him at all
I have said it before a Dog is what you bring it up to be, it is how you treat it, how you feed it and how you train it.
There is nothing easier than to train a Dog to be vicious, and on the other hand there is nothing hard in training a Dog to be a good Sociable Animal and still not losing any fire in its belly that it has inherited, Everything a Dog is, is in the hands of the Owner handler no one else we are responsible for what the Dogs become
Steve1
by DuvalGSD on 12 March 2010 - 21:03
LAVK-9,
Make your small threats and get all worked up about this thread WICH makes you my bitch, as well the rest of you.. When it comes to hunting, half of you have never done it or never tried it.. So fail for all the expert hunters on this thread. And as far as living in the north, then why are all you bastards moving south............Like i tell the people that complain about the heat, get back on 95 north and take your ass home..We never asked you to come her in the first place..
LAVK-9,
The dog training expert that can help all, but turns around and post a thread of "why is my dog bark".........HOW THE HELL ARE YOU A TRAINER....YOUR CLAIM TO FAME IS FAKE AS WELL AS YOUR SELF. BUT EVERYONE THINKS YOU THE NEXT CEASR..........................FAKE ASS BITCH
Make your small threats and get all worked up about this thread WICH makes you my bitch, as well the rest of you.. When it comes to hunting, half of you have never done it or never tried it.. So fail for all the expert hunters on this thread. And as far as living in the north, then why are all you bastards moving south............Like i tell the people that complain about the heat, get back on 95 north and take your ass home..We never asked you to come her in the first place..
LAVK-9,
The dog training expert that can help all, but turns around and post a thread of "why is my dog bark".........HOW THE HELL ARE YOU A TRAINER....YOUR CLAIM TO FAME IS FAKE AS WELL AS YOUR SELF. BUT EVERYONE THINKS YOU THE NEXT CEASR..........................FAKE ASS BITCH
by DuvalGSD on 12 March 2010 - 21:03
Tonite when i get home i'll post some pics of some pits catching hogs..........just for my fan club
by Sugarplum on 12 March 2010 - 21:03
Ah the stress of a week at work has been lifted by the laughs this page provides. talking to yourself is suposed to be the first sign of madness. no need to pull up IP addresses, the similarities have been striking between ray and the other two (at least 2 new names)...and to someone who said 'is alwasy nice to me so they can't be the same people' - have you never met a narcissicist? LMAO bigtime, please keep it up (as if you needed encouragement), it is the funniest thing to watch
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