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by vfg on 05 February 2011 - 22:02
"Physical size exercise great influence in ability to move - for with increase in size weight grows more in proportion than the strength available for movement which depends on the density of the muscles; and so there is an adverse effect not only on the capacity for the type of work which demand endurance, but also on the elasticity of the body, with regard to movements, and the capability of making sharp turns, sudden stops, and of surmounting obstacles. Increased weight also excercise strong pressure on the supporting frame of the body which affect the bones themselves, as well as the ligaments and muscles."
Capt. Max Stephanitz
"The German Shepherd Dog"
English version published by the SV page 8th edition, page 720
Capt. Max Stephanitz
"The German Shepherd Dog"
English version published by the SV page 8th edition, page 720

by CMills on 05 February 2011 - 22:02
I agree with Mike Johnson about the heavier boned Czech working dogs. and I LOVE dawgEsome's dog pictured!

by Jenni78 on 05 February 2011 - 23:02
So, basically, VFG, your initial post didn't make sense in the way that I thought was the case. I was correct that you are referring to SIZE, particularly size with regard to PROPORTION. No shame in admitting you didn't pose the question properly.
In the last sentence you copied, you basically refute your initial allegation, because, if we follow logic, larger, denser bones would be an asset, not a liability, especially if the dog's frame is larger. An out- of- proportion dog will most definitely tire more easily and not work as efficiently. However, a proportionately large boned, densely- muscled dog should have no problem doing any of the tasks a GSD should do. BTW; the GSD was supposed to be a versatile service dog- not strictly a sheepdog.
So, VFG, I'm asking nicely; what about the dog in the pics I posted? What is your opinion on it?
In the last sentence you copied, you basically refute your initial allegation, because, if we follow logic, larger, denser bones would be an asset, not a liability, especially if the dog's frame is larger. An out- of- proportion dog will most definitely tire more easily and not work as efficiently. However, a proportionately large boned, densely- muscled dog should have no problem doing any of the tasks a GSD should do. BTW; the GSD was supposed to be a versatile service dog- not strictly a sheepdog.
So, VFG, I'm asking nicely; what about the dog in the pics I posted? What is your opinion on it?

by dAWgESOME on 05 February 2011 - 23:02
Thanks for the complement vfg -
I'll never bother to find out if he can or can't work cattle but lets just say he can not do that job - but if that would make him wrong then I guess I don't want to be right...
I'll never bother to find out if he can or can't work cattle but lets just say he can not do that job - but if that would make him wrong then I guess I don't want to be right...
by vfg on 05 February 2011 - 23:02
Not all is about proportion. Assume you get a GSD as big, as a horse and perfectly proportioned (a blow-up of a GSD well within the standard regarding size.) This dog, regardless of its proportion would not be an efficient mover. (there are horses as big as dogs -miniature or Falabella- that are also bad as horses... but nice as pets -I have one)
I agree that today few if any GSD work herding sheep. But we still have a standard as if they did; if we do not follow the standard we will end-up with horse-looking dogs.
Your dog in the Pic is really impressive; I would love to have him as a guard dog.
I agree that today few if any GSD work herding sheep. But we still have a standard as if they did; if we do not follow the standard we will end-up with horse-looking dogs.
Your dog in the Pic is really impressive; I would love to have him as a guard dog.

by Jenni78 on 06 February 2011 - 00:02
Ok, now you're getting into weird sci-fi stuff w/GSDs as big as horses...I still am failing miserably in my attempts (though valiant) to see your point about "big boned."
Now, my question is VFG, are you talking about MY dog in the pics? "Love to have him as a guard dog?" If so, ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please, please elaborate on why this dog would be suited to being a guard dog and unsuitable in some other venue. This is what we are interested in hearing your theory on, or at least that's what I'm trying to understand.
I'll let someone else jump in here and tell why that's so darn funny if you're talking about the pics I posted. Mollyandjack perhaps??? Would you like to do the honors? SSG?
If you're talking about Dawgesome's dog...then I agree. He is a great looking dog.
Now, my question is VFG, are you talking about MY dog in the pics? "Love to have him as a guard dog?" If so, ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please, please elaborate on why this dog would be suited to being a guard dog and unsuitable in some other venue. This is what we are interested in hearing your theory on, or at least that's what I'm trying to understand.
I'll let someone else jump in here and tell why that's so darn funny if you're talking about the pics I posted. Mollyandjack perhaps??? Would you like to do the honors? SSG?
If you're talking about Dawgesome's dog...then I agree. He is a great looking dog.

by Rik on 06 February 2011 - 00:02
are we talking bone or oversize. I think I missed the transition.
Also would like to know how bone size affects gait or stamina in a correctly structured dog.
Do you have an example of a dog with too much bone. Maybe that would help.

by mollyandjack on 06 February 2011 - 00:02
vfg, I don't get what you are saying, in all honesty. Are you actually referring to oversized dogs...as in too tall?? I don't get it.
Why, I do believe I will oblige ;-) In relation to the pics Jenni posted...that dog works on a mink farm, catching escaped mink, elk, and who the hell knows what else! I don't remember what that thread was called...but that dog can work.
Why, I do believe I will oblige ;-) In relation to the pics Jenni posted...that dog works on a mink farm, catching escaped mink, elk, and who the hell knows what else! I don't remember what that thread was called...but that dog can work.

by alboe2009 on 06 February 2011 - 00:02
I'll jump in for a few seconds................. gotta watch a DVD. OP, first to make a blanket statement...... THAT, opened the door. Then to bold and italicise what you copied from a book................ THAT opened the door a little wider. You're talking about multiple things so try and stay focused and prove or have your point disaproved on (I think) "Thick boned/large boned dogs not being able to work...." (was that it?)
Dog/horse? That one lost me too. Now I look at your joined date but I have never seen you post as long as I have been here. Where have you been lately?
Also, my old club we had a Rottie pup herding sheep, (I'll try and find those pics and scan them for you) so how can you say "this one can't do this" and "this one can't do that"?
Times have changed, dogs have changed. I'll say this and maybe you can understand a little better? Football: Playersare BIGGER! MONSTERS! FASTER!, QUICKER!, MORE AGILE! And they last a whole game and more.
Man, I didn't know "MAX" knew Mike Tyson?
Dog/horse? That one lost me too. Now I look at your joined date but I have never seen you post as long as I have been here. Where have you been lately?
Also, my old club we had a Rottie pup herding sheep, (I'll try and find those pics and scan them for you) so how can you say "this one can't do this" and "this one can't do that"?
Times have changed, dogs have changed. I'll say this and maybe you can understand a little better? Football: Playersare BIGGER! MONSTERS! FASTER!, QUICKER!, MORE AGILE! And they last a whole game and more.
Man, I didn't know "MAX" knew Mike Tyson?

by Jenni78 on 06 February 2011 - 01:02
Mollyandjack got it. I figured a few would remember that particular critter. He EPITOMIZES a "working GSD." He works tirelessly 24/7, 365 days a year, herding, catching, rounding up, holding at bay....etc.............whatever happens to get loose....mink, elk, horses, sheep, boars, foxes, bobcats, coyotes, etc. The dog is incredibly determined, devoted, tenacious, and physically sound. These qualities, IMO, can overcome obstacles, too, in the cases where "heart" maybe overrides a flawed physique, but that's a whole 'nother topic;-)
I borrowed that dog for an hour for a customer who wanted to meet him and that's when the pic w/the baby was taken. That was the longest break he has had in almost 2 years.
He is not a huge dog, upper-medium sized, I'd say, but has very nice bone for his size, IMO.
My point was that your blanket statement was inherently flawed, unless you're talking about something entirely different and just not articulating it well in this thread.
I borrowed that dog for an hour for a customer who wanted to meet him and that's when the pic w/the baby was taken. That was the longest break he has had in almost 2 years.
He is not a huge dog, upper-medium sized, I'd say, but has very nice bone for his size, IMO.
My point was that your blanket statement was inherently flawed, unless you're talking about something entirely different and just not articulating it well in this thread.
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