This IRKS me! Does it bother anyone else? - Page 3

4pack: I respect your postings and opinions, however, I just look at the "working" diffinition differently than most, I guess. IMO, a Therapy dog, a home and family protector, a GSD that hunt's Truffles or rabbits, a GSD that catches Frisbee's in competition, a GSD that pulls a sled in the Iditarod, or whatever a GSD's "job" is, is a working dog. If six generations of GSD's who were bred and trained to hunt "truffles" was around, that would, IMO, be a working line. Schutzund participation is a working dog. Capt. Max's vision originally was a herder, then changed to a military or police assistant. If Capt. Max was still around, who knows what he would be persuing with his breed now. Perhaps a breed that specialized in alerting us of impending earthquakes or such. It could have easily been determined through the years that it was cruel and inhumane to use dogs to attack people or jump over obstacles, or put them in jeopardy of bombs, guns, etc. ie: not fair and appropriate to dogs in general, to use them for such purposes. Then, what would Max have done to "save" his breed? Dog shows for structure and beauty? It's just possible. Dachshunds, Poodles, Pit Bulls, Irish Wolf Hounds, etc., all were working breeds, but do they anymore? They still have a "standard", are bred, loved, etc. Sure, the GSD is a working breed. But there are racing Greyhounds and pet Greyhounds. Why can't there be working "show line" dogs, that may not be as good as working "working line" dogs, but have thier due respect, as slighted as it may be, to the "other camp"? It's fun to argue and debate, but in truth, it is much ado about nothing. These discussions about this topic. If my daughter is prettier than your daughter, but your (not so beautiful) daughter is serving in Iraq and mine is a New York clothing model. Both of us could be equally proud of our daughter/s, and would want them "bred" for grandchildren (to the appropriate stud of course) :)

I prefer a dark sable myself, they are as good looking as any GSD is in my opinion. Same for Bi-Color and solid blacks. To me color is not a primary selector. Luckily alot of people don't like sable pups due to the the way they look as pups so sometimes people pass on getting a super sable GSD pup and end up with a poor quality GSd pup with Beautiful color and markings.

Kinda like the judge said about porn. Hard to define but I know it when I see it. Same for a working dog, lots of opinions but I know one when I see one work!!

Do right, a few years ago at an AKC show I saw one of the most beautiful working GSD's I've ever seen. This wonderful animal was harnessed to a wheelchair pulling her young paraplegic owner around the show site. I don't know if this was a working line, a showline or an American line dog, I'm not a breed snob, I didn't ask, didn't care. I just know I've never seen a dog more deserving of being called a working GSD.

I agree Do Right, there is room. Some of us just fear a lazy dog takeover, exactly like you so notably pointed out, has happend to other breeds. Should we stand aside and let it happen to the GSD? I think they are too valuable to the human population for that. I hope that in the future, "working" dogs do change and take on new endevours like sniffing out cancer or alerting earthquakes. We can only hope someday, they wont be needed for protection, war or bombs anymore. As old jobs die, I hope new ones emerge. Not that us dog lovers need an excuse to keep dogs around. =) I have my non-working lazy GSD's too but I wouldn't breed them, just because I love them.

Just to clarify why I brought this thread up - I am a disabled Veteran. I bought a service dog, spent alot of money for a dog to help me..... Only to have trainers work the dog (a nice showline) and find out he is nice..... with no drives Whatsoever. I am a little bitter. Actually, that's an understatement. I am outraged. there are predators out there, waiting to take advantage of folks who don't know any better! I guess it just bothers me that the trainers who have looked at my dog, sum it up by saying "Well, um, It's a Showline...." There is no recourse. These people will keep doing this to others, and people who are looking for a little bit of honesty will get screwed over. I am just really hurt. On top of it, it appears to me that most of the GSD community is out for profit - but the Showlines thing has been ringing in my head. What is the point of them? (It's a rhetoric question....) There are folks who gauge eyes out with workinglines, sure, like the crazy folks who want waaaay too damn much for a longcoat pup. That's the kind of people who need to be stopped. I don't feel it's right to gouge people over-inflating the price of a living thing, like a dog. It's not wrong to sell a dog, but I do believe there is some ethical accountability in where you place a dog, just as I believe there is some ethical irresponsibilty in ripping someone off intentionally. Hasn't anyone learned from Martha Stewarts no-no, or that weirdo from "Survivor" who got canned for "accidentally" not paying taxes. Hopefully it is - Someone is always seeing what you are doing. Even if it is only god and the reflection in the mirror. I can't wait for the day when my homework is done and I can stand up & make it known to the world what these people have done to me. And of course, I have contacted the Lady who sold me the dog. And of course she made excuses that don't fly with people who Actually Train Dogs for a Living. We'll see how this plays out. I pray for God's will, and the wisdom & courage to follow it. august

WOW...we went from people responding to Ad's trying to sell something that was not asked for, to the Working/Show line topic again! :) Schaus.... Yes, it's ashame that someone is either trying to pull the wool over your eyes, or just don't know what they really have in their pedigrees...But as discussed the in "BS BUYER" thread not that long ago, you kinda just have to weed through them. Perhaps less caffine would help...(I drink 2 pots a day! LOL ) I would just chaulk it up to ignorance, and then try to educate them on what exactly they have! :) And Do Right.....you are the shit! :-) (and I mean that in a good way)!! Yes, I know the difference with show/working lines..and have had both. I prefer the working lines for my lifestyle and what I want to do. But I also believe that ANY dog, no matter what breed/size, that is doing a "job", IMO is a working dog!!! (looking for the highest tree in my yard now to be strung up by! LOL )

Hi, yawn, man is this old stuff,yawn.... If you request a workingline dog (if it can actually work is a total different question) and get offered a showline, it just shows that someone wants to sell a dog. The one offering the dog has probably not very high hopes to sell his showline to you, heck he tried it anyway. Does it bother you, well delete the mail and move on. Then you moved the topic towards Show versus working, thats when i get tired. I will stick to it, any showline, given that it has the nerves and drives (that are also missing in workinglines)can do whatever job is asked from him. It all depends on, that you see the potencial and train it accordingly. The Füllers have an outstanding breeding programm, just dont believe that all of their dogs will be VA in Show or will excied in the workingfield. They do breed on a larger scale, so their chance of picking out "THE" pup for show or work increases. And doing it for a long time as they do, they have the right nose to pick the right one. Trailrider, hope your pup strives and that you have a lot of pleasure with it. Regards Ulli Dresbach

Thanks Ulli I am enjoying her every day as I do all my dogs, no matter what the lines or color. And I have 2 sables and one part time sable that is my sons dog. They out number my black and red/tan. schauspielkunst (hope I spellled that right) your second post is alot different than your first. Originally you said you were ofered a showline when asking for a working line. Now you have a showline and the trainers are blaming the background on why the dog won't work. Well maybe this dog won't or maybe its the trainers aren't working right with the dog because of its background, who knows... just shop around until you find what you want. Not to awful long ago there was a guy posting he had bought a young "working line" male from a well known kennel in Belgium. He also was handicapped. First he claimed bad hips on the dog, then the dog turned on him as a last resort in his effort to make people think the the breeder or importer were to blame. Sometimes ya gotta look past the lines and find the right dog.

My working line dogs must show. My show line dogs must work. That said, crossing the two is being done more and more on both sides of the pond with good results and I am happy to see it. Don't know if I will live to see the day there is no longer any distinction between the two, doesn't look too likely in the 20 yrs. or so I may have left, but it IS getting better IMO. The overall improvement I saw in the protection work last weekend, compared to ten years ago, and the judge's mention of working ability in the VA3 dog Andrjuscha's critique, gave me reason to hope. I would like to see more elaborate performance tests prior to admittance to the Sieger show ring in future, but that's probably just a fantasy. Still... SS