Limited Registration Discussion - Page 3

Just some thoughts I had on LR

In my opinion a breeder is responsible for the puppies they breed for the lifetime of the animal. Sorry, but living creatures /puppies should not be treated like common merchandise.
If breeding was taken that seriously, then maybe there wouldn’t be so much of it.

You take deliberate steps to create life, so you are then responsible for it. It doesn’t end at the exchange of monies. Now there are obviously limits to what a breeder can do, and maintaining the full registration is one of the few things that you can have control over.

Inconveniences like paper work etc. are par for the course. If you can’t do a thing right, then leave it to the folks that can. That’s my conviction and I enjoy the platform to express such.

Giving full registration because the LR paper work is labor intensive is just lazy breeding.

LR is of no regard to people not interested in breeding so no harm no foul there for those buyers.

And if you are selling puppies to knowledgeable people who want the breeding rights then they would understand the reasons why it’s important to see what the puppy brings in the future before getting those rights.

Valk: when you says "I don't need to take a dog that doesn't belong to me to breed" i think you very unwisely narrowing your options in betterment the breed by upping quantity of good dogs and forcing out of market shitty breeders or you just don't care what goes on beyond you little private space.


If that is the way you actually see the world, then why are you not doing your part to " force out of the market shitty breeders", instead of ragging on someone who actually is producing good dogs ?
First you want to know why I don't use limited registration on every pup, I answered you...now you up the ante and besmirch me for not taking a privately owned dog away from it's owner to breed it!!!

Dude! I have dogs that produced that dog...and I have littermate that I kept back...and I only breed one litter a year! So how in the heck am I supposed to " force out shitty breeders"!!???

Why don't YOU go breed a few dozen litters a year and YOU force out the " shitty" breeders! That's what I think you should do, " or you just don't care what goes beyond you private little space."???

1ruger1:
Prager said,
“I think SV rules suck and because they are mandatory they are directly leading to a destruction of the breed. “

I am not sure what you mean by this statement. Would you mind elaborating a bit more as to why you feel the SV rules suck and why you feel they are leading to the destruction of the breed.
Thanks 😊

Hans ( Prager)  

A:That one is easy. While SV through their regulations managed to create a great dog, due to the recent softening of German and Western culture, in general, the perception of the breed is also getting softer. IMO a soft German shepherd is a pathetic contradiction of terms. The rules of SchH are getting softer and softer due to softened rules of IPO and now we have something called VPG,... I think.

Remember, the quality and characteristics of the dog breed depends on the culture which created it. Once, I have seen a picture of Turkish sheepherders with thousand or so sheep and shepherding Anatolian shepherds dogs in Asia Minor ( bad place). The sheepherders have nonchalantly slung over their shoulder an AK-47. The rhetorical question: What kind of a dog do you think such culture created?

SV competition scheme is now a sport for points and not a breed - worthiness test as it used to be long time ago, and this "test' is getting weaker and weaker until these days all we have left is a bunch of dogs which akin to clowns are performing complicated circus tricks which have nothing to do with reality since the helper is nothing else but a friend of the dog who brings the dog his favorite toy. Where is natural protectiveness? Hold and bark is these days trained with morsels of food and thus it is merely "speak" training which has NOTHING to do with guarding a dangerous bad guy. For that reason, the GSD breed is losing its ground to other breeds in the world of real dog work on a street as needed and demanded as a necessity by law enforcement, military or private people who need dogs for protection. What is missing is testing for toughness of dealing with the negative challenge which would be supported by defense and prey drive in an appropriate balance. It is missing work and training the dog out of comfort zone. Instead, all the dog must be fun in a comfort zone and it is demanded that the dog does everything for fun and for his handler. Pathetic! However, these days defense drive, natural or learned is a dirty word in the sports world same as natural protectiveness and ability to appropri

ately deal with pain and fear and real stress and still work as needed. As a matter of fact, things are so bad that it took me, me, the abrasive MF Czech guy several minutes to use appropriate verbiage so that delicate snowflake-PC crowd does not faint like a narcoleptic goats

. I am not sure that I have succeeded.

Good post, pragre. But who cares if the PC snowflakes faint like fainting goats.....sick of having to tip toe around the tulips so that people who can't deal with reality can remain in their protective bubble without it going pop!

Hans,

Just because a sport has softened, doesn't mean you can't do your due diligence and find what you're looking for. I know you know this as many dogs and puppies on your site have SV registered dogs in their pedigree. Discrimination comes from the breeder. It is their job to get out and look for themselves. If a breeder goes out and breeds to a male that gets a consistent 84 in C, then we have a problem.

As to the "defense" thing. I'm not sure I agree. I don't know what clubs you've visited or trained with, but anyone I have ever trained with that is serious in the sport, knows, understands, and utilizes all assets, including defense.
I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but maybe a little overly dramatic.

Now we have to do “ due diligence” to often find the traits in the breed that the standard says the dog should possess. To me it’s like doing due diligence to find Labrador that is strong swimmer.....but I admit times have passed me by.

I don’t mean the above post to be snarky, it’s just that the standard has always been my benchmark. The breed, imo, has moved away from the standard and created a new standard in the show and sport worlds. So that “ due diligence “ is needed often to find simple GS with standard traits.

Will LR help this, I’m not really sure. I know some great breeders that use the LR system, but I know just as many that don’t. Now does that mean that the ones that do are knowledgeable and the ones that don’t are lucky? Maybe to some, but I know better. Good breeders can have different approaches, and still be quality...just like good trainers can have different approaches and still produce excellent trained dogs.

Gustav,

Correct me if I'm going, but SchH used to be a breed test that was simply pass or fail. You still had to do due diligence. Did they just breed to any and all dogs that passed? Today it is a sport, better yet, a competition. Just like in the past, you still have to do your due diligence. We don't just breed to any dog that scores 70-70-80.

Vito, trust me( or maybe not...lol) but the scores of Sch test would never be a barometer for me to breed. Actually, compatibility of two dogs involved both genotype and phenotype are much more important. But sport scores and show titles ( select titlesVA) are bigger reasons for breeding today than anything, and to me they show a “ lack” of due diligence. Go to high score dog or the dog that got 98 in protection....not realizing that most of the 98 is result of training and may be totally incompatible genetics to dog bred to. Go to the VA 1 or 2 or 3 dogs to breed, not realizing that politics and kennel/handler has a lot to do with that placing as opposed to compatibility of the dog bred to. IMO, this is how we have gotten away from standard and into specialty dogs. Not sure how LR would fix this...just an old cranky opinion.

I will say time has passed many of us by.

there was actually a time when a sch. title was a fairly safe bet for a good LE dog. or at least that is what a canine LE handler told me, quite a few years ago.

a retired SV judge told me there was a time when the handler would lift the dog up so the judge could inspect for testicles, as it was not a good idea to actually put hands on a lot of the dogs.

crazy stuff, huh.

basically, what some are saying is it's ok if "I" breed dogs, just like any other live stock, cash the check, just limit the next person who might have the same idea.

it's the next guy in line who does the dis-service to the breed, not "me", cause I got this form buyers have to fill out before they even fill out the check.