Italian sired Import , now AKC CHAMPION !!! - Page 3

Always the harbinger of doom, bzcz.

Nope, just pointing out factual trends.

Which I notice that you have no answer for.

Everyone else who is aware of this other era where it was tried and failed can see the similarities.

Better to stick your head in the sand and say it isn't so then it is to answer a tough question though.

And you wonder why we don't believe the GSDCA.......

Can't ever get a straight answer when asked the uncomfortable questions.  Its all just cheer leader rah rah and shake the pom poms.  No real play book to get there though, just the cheering.

I think this is interesting. Knocking positivity! 

Lol

And how is that elitist attitude working for growth? Same as it ever was. 

Congrats to an honestly recognized W I. N. N E R !

You are consistent, I'll give you that. It would take a lot more research to know for sure why these dogs weren't used more if that's what  you mean. Were you involved in the show line side of the breed when they were imported to the US? Did you know their owners? Did you know anyone who bred to any of them or did you breed to any of them? Did you own a dog sired by any of them? Did you ever work one? Did their owners make them accessible to all bitches or just specific lines? How do you know so much about thier influence on the ASL? Did  you know their owners goals for these dogs, their trainers, their breeders?

You are so good at dumping on everyone else for not answering  your demands or agreeing with you, yet you yourself offer nothing any better. I don't know why these dogs weren't used more than they were, so why don't YOU tell ME? What are those factual trends you alluded to?

More rattling of the pom poms. 

Ask Lynn Graves (Trommel Shepherds) how it worked out.  I was there, I know.

Try answering a question bee instead of acting like an insect.

What's the playbook?

Answer my questions then. You were there, enlighten us.

I owned and trained Trommel dogs.

Knew Lynn Graves personally.

The AKC people wouldn't use his SchH Titled dogs.

He had a litter that he used to prove this.  He had two littermates, Dirk and Degen of similar build and drive.  One went SchH and the other went AKC.  Only the AKC one was used for breeding, the other one rotted on the vine for all they cared.  If I remember correctly (been a long time ago), they both had Jasmine who was in Fred Lantings book about her beautiful trot.

Lynn also had Ivan who was AKC champion and SchH2 that was never bred by the AKC crowd. 

On the other side of the fence, the purists wouldn't use them because of their American untitled lines.  I didn't really like Lynn (we butted heads alot), my friend was the one who kept us talking and working together. 

I admired and could see the merits of what he was doing and I watched him fall into oblivion till the bitter nasty end.  It was ugly and it wasn't fair and it was sad to watch his dreams go down in flames. 

He walked a middle ground that left him a pariah on both sides and his legacy and dogs are all long gone.

Your turn, what's going to be different this time?

It already is different by the changes that are happening . You apparently are not in the mood to see the changes. The current dialogue, the organizational leap frogs of personnel. And now proof of perception change via this winner. What a perfect example.

My friend recently took second place in a CKC match with her German bred bitch. The judge said she would have placed first, if it hadn't been for a couple of chipped teeth!

Gouda, Tattoo was at that same show. The owner of the kennel that hosted it really likes him, and has use him as a stud!

I LOVE one of the males he produced:  CKC Ch Madeb's Fury

According to one of the people I talked to, the CKC breeders have always been more opten to using German lines than AKC.

Well, thank you, why don't you post information like that more often. Most of us wouldn't think of you as such an asshole if  you did and I'm pretty sure  your reputation on this board would be a lot more positive (if you care that is).

Past is prologue, history, and as such can be retold with accuracy by those who were there.  Predicting the future is a lot more difficult. What's going to be different this time? I don't know, maybe nothing, maybe everything. It's up to breeders to stop the damned in-fighting and start to think about what is right for the breed, not their own agendas. Will that ever happen? Frankly, I'm not optimistic but I won't dump on the GSDCA or the ASL breeders and blame it all on them.

I hope the GSDCA Sieger is successful. I won't wish for it to fail.