Any Breeders use PennHip for their stud dogs? - Page 3

I'm with Gustav.  Why would a dog that looks completely normal/good/whatever at 6 months and then again at 24 months "develop" hip dysplasia?  I don't think it works that way.  If my dog has an injury to his pelvis, sure I will get an x-ray if one is called for.  If my dog shows signs of laxity early on or around maturity, I would also continue to monitor, but a dog that looks completely unremarkable twice during development and at maturity....not going to bother with PennHip especially when already x-rayed twice by an expert radiologist who helped create PennHip and does not think it is necessary for my dog.  I'm not saying it's not a good rating, I'm just saying my dogs are already OFA and/or a-stamp and I'm not going to repeat hip certifications when I would bet my house my dogs do not have and will not develop HD out of the blue.

Personally I do both Pennhip and OFA on my dogs but believe Pennhip is a better evaluation tool for breeders.  For example, I have an ACD bitch that is OFA good but has hips in the 40% for the breed compared to other dogs of my breed tested by Pennhip.  I bred her to an OFA good male that has hips in the 90% for Pennhip.  The male I kept from the litter is OFA good and has hips in the 70% for Pennhip so an improvement of 30% over his mother.  All three are OFA good but through Pennhip, I was able to improve upon my bitch's less than stellar score.  Just my personal experience/opinion :-)

 I like to do an endurance test (AD) with my up and coming dogs right before
they get their hips certified, your dog will be in the best shape for his/her x-ray,
and I just do OFA as quite a few people out there have no idea what Penn-Hip is.

If your dog can't exercise for an extended amount of time, then you have a problem, be it hips, elbows heart or lungs,
I believe in a real life challenge for the dog instead of just looking at x-rays in a bunch of different views.



   1922 Rin Tin Tin
 

I agree! I had sent my entry in for a November AD. I had been working our butts off all year! Right before the test, I wanted to see if my fitness program was on track.  So, I did a 9 hour hike with my girl over 3- 5000 foot mountains to get in more endurance and elevation training! She aced it and was trying to get us to play ball at the end! I had her as fit as hell!! Then, they cancelled the AD....stunk.  All my hard work for months was wasted.

sarah


 

Oh Smiley that would suk!!

So, according to PH, dogs who OFA says are Good or Excellent might still develop HD as they age. How many of you have ever had a dog who tested OFA Good or Excellent (not prelims, but 2 yr films) develop issues with HD? So, do you want to eliminate a dog from breeding if that dog never has a problem, shows up phenotypically excellent, and produces a very low incident of HD, based on PH's laxity reading?

The presupposition is that the laxity reading translates to propensity to produce HD or lack thereof in an offspring--have we seen any evidence/support of this? How do the PH ratings fare in comparison to the same research on OFA-cleared dogs? (That is, testing OFA or PH ratings as predictors of HD production.)

Christine
 

I think we making this too complicated....PH is a tool just like OFA or any other measure that gives you information on the physical status of the hips. A breeder uses it for part of their assessment in determine compatibility of two dogs in terms of projected hips in litter. All of these elements;  tools, siblings hip status, 3-4 generation hip status are all factored in by good breeders. So whether I get OFA good, or good percentile rating from PH, or even year old prelims that are good, they are only a piece of the puzzle and if too much emphasis is placed on subjectivity at expense of other info, you could be breeding OFA good to good and still have high HD in litters. One tool is good as other when meshed with other factors which is what good breeders will do, IMO.

Tried to eliminate double post

In addition to genetics (and research seems to indicate that HD is polygenetic), there are also environmental factors which can cause HD in hips.  OFA will fail hips with evidence of arthritic changes.  Arthritic changes can sometimes occur through repetitive motion exercise. Therefore, it's generally a good idea to do the heavy prolonged endurance training for the AD or other sports like competition level agility or jumping until after the OFA xrays.   As the GSD and Labrador lines I'm most familiar with are very slow to mature both mentally and physically, I generally teach the basics and keep them fit through a daily supervised run and hike at nearby farm fields, and then after OFAs step up the training exercise level.   Generally around age two my dogs are mentally able to handle more training pressure and I begin to ask more of them.  This is just what works for me.  If other folks want to do things differently, that is up to you and your training program.  There are many different and successful programs out there.

Agree with Gustav that both Penn Hip and OFA are excellent tools to help breeders select for orthopedic soundness.   Good breeders look at depth of pedigree  (i.e. siblings and close relatives of each dog in the pedigree) to help them select for specific traits such as orthopedic soundness, eye health, temperament and character and working ability, stamina, health issue DNA testing, cardiac soundness, etc...   It isn't easy.  It is really interesting to evaluate litters and later the grown dogs to see what is produced over many generations.

Really like the discussion on this thread.  :)
 

OFA used to recommend that hip xrays be done before the dog was 6, 7 years old as after that all large breed dogs tend to develop arthritic changes. I don't see that on their site anymore. A qualified radiologist should be able to tell the difference between normal aging changes and those caused by hip incongruity.

IMO OFA should require sedation to the point of relaxation for hip xrays, it can make a difference; some dogs will pass when awake and resisting the manipulation that would not pass if relaxed. I've seen it.