Smaller the litter, Greater chance of caesarian??? - Page 3

my experience in females trying to whelp small litters with big puppies, and losing puppies due to stopped labors, or big stuck puppies, or puppies that suffocated because of big stuck puppies - are why I now consider c-section an option with small litters (if the puppies are noticeably large on the x-ray). Because, if there is a dead puppy in the female, it will not stimulate contractions, and a c-section will be necessary anyway to remove the dead pup. I think a c-section to remove a live pup is a much better option. molly

The old farm vet I worked for made the incision for a section on the bitch's side rather than mid section of the abdomen. He also used only a local anesthetic with a light tranquilizer. It worked out pretty darn good as the puppies didn't irritate the incision, it healed a lot faster where it was exposed to the air, there was no need for the dam to recover from general anesthesia and no conern that the pups would be intoxicated. Do any vets still use that procedure? I've never seen it before or since.

never heard of that - local anesthetic for a c-section? yikes! I've only had experience with a few c-sections, but in all cases the pups were awake and screaming almost immediately, and never any problems with the anesthesia given to the mom. And no problems with the incision being bothered by the puppies or failing to heal quickly. molly

I'm with Molly in her decision making process. I use the same criteria. I would approach each litter in the same manner. X ray and if it's 3 or less, plan a C section. When puppies are born, seconds count. The female may push them out fine, they may be a few minutes late, they may be stuck. If you litter is the product of an exceptional female you shipped to Germany, shipped back, and you have 3 large pups going past day 60-61.....Why take the chance?

Every caesarian I have had to have performed were with older females because of uterine dystocia. I had the females spayed during the procedure. Time is of the essence when the procedure is necessary! Alos, they always seem to happen in the middleof the night on a weekend or holiday for some reason. If your vet doesn't have a lot of 24/7 staff to assist, be prepared to revive pups yourself, and try to bring someone along who can help without passing out at the sight of the inside of a dog... ;)

Incorrect yellowrose of Texas, with 25 litters, once through the alphabet a breeder should be considered experienced. One C-section only in 25 litters due to deliberate food poisoning in the last stages of pregnancy, unfortunately on a surgical AI, still one good puppy. Yes, some puppies are oversized, some may be dead inside, but taking the temperature during the last days is (not always) in most cases a control for the breeder on what is going on. How many of you are missing the very small clear discharge prior to the first puppy? I bet you 99% are missing it. If you don't know how to use Oxitocin, don't breed! Half of the vet clinics do not know how to use it. Vet comes with Oxitocin, you better run! Some try to introduce labout with it! Horrifying! And, yes, the vet is working to the guidelines of the association, in most cases not in the interest of the dog. Dragging a bitch for ultrasound to the vet, dragging a bitch for any other reason to the vet in the last stages of the pregnancy is in my opinion a crime, not in the interest of the poor bitch, just in the interest of the human convenience and curiosity. That is how you cause the bitch to have problems. Our dogs are doomed if this is what breeders do. I expected a few breeds to be still in the hands of knowledgable breeders, and thought that the GSD was one of them. Wrong, sadly I learned.

*******Ok, dog went into labor this morning at 6:30 am - one female sable pup about 1 lb.....hasn't had another since....almost 6 hours...vet is saying go to get an oxytocin shot now. First time Mom. Some contractions, but not much going on. Vet says no big deal - everything should be fine. Anything to worry about?

Do you know how many pups are in there? If your x rays show one, you're done. If there are 5 and you are at number 4, you know you have one to go. The comfort of the knowledge an x ray provides is well worth the effort to get one. If you knew there were 3 or less. I'd be at the vet's now. Sounds like you don't know and suspect there are more. Look for contractions. A female can go hours between pups. Anything more than an hour and I'm concerned but not in panic. 6 hours is cause for concern but not necessarily critical. Be patient after the first pup until you see her push. If she pushes for 15 min and you don't see a pup, that's when I would be concerned. Take her for a walk or feel inside and see what position the pup is in. If you can tell the pup is coming out in a correct position, I would give her oxytocin then. If no pup in 10 minutes after oxytocin. Expect to loose that pup and go to your vet to save the rest.

Six hours wait for the next puppy means a dead puppy blocking. Recently I have heard several reports of vets giving incorrect advice. They are encouraging C-section when it's too early and they are not doing anything when they should. Vet is waiting for a C-section with associated spaying, another guideline issue of AVMA/CVMA. What actions did you take after the first two hours? What color is the discharge? Green or brown? Green means puppy may be in somewhat poor shape but alive, brown means dead puppy. How many waterbags did burst? Did you note the time when the water bags bursted? Two hour after a water bag bursts is the maximum you can wait for arrival of this puppy. What is the temperature of the bitch? Has it risen? Has the labour been interrupted, stopped? After 2 hours you should have had the picture and walked the bitch. Are you giving her Calcium syrup? Are you attending her or do you let her be by herself in the whelping box? Oxitocin can be given up to a total of three times during whelping. But, labour must be in progrees or Oxitocin will rip the uterus. Oxitocin shots must be spaced at least over 1 hour apart. I keep two hours distance in between. You must leave yourself one shot for the end if you are using Oxitocin in between. Sometimes the waterbag of the second puppy bursts about the same time the first puppy's water bag bursts. Pencil and paper, and a reliable clock are a must beside the whelping box.

GSDLVR: Are you asking these questions just for curiosity, but you are not actually whelping? You cannot just ask a simple question like you did above without presenting the complete picture. And, presenting the picture at a retroactive stage will give you inmcorrect answers. Bitch may be coming from line breeding, from a record of C-section litters. A puppy whelped with C-section - a C-section that was indeed caused by inherited genes - should never be bred as an adult. I do not breed such a bitch or dog.