newNo more individual VA ranked GSD's- only Group - Page 3

     Kyoto, from what I understand a transitional vertebrate is a congenital condition not an inheritable one. I don't see how you can say the SV does not care about the health of the breed because they are not testing for a condition veterinarians say does not preclude a dog from being bred. The condition already shows up on a hip X-ray from what I understand but maybe you are right and the SV veterinarian who reviews hips will one day reject dogs with this condition. The SV veterinarian who reviews elbows already has raised the standard above what OFA  requires. 
    If the use of other breeds for Law enforcement and Military is due to a down turn in breeding standards of the GSD then that is the fault of the working breeders and their lines. The use of the Malinois is probably due to an appreciation for the qualities of it's breed to the task it has been chosen rather than the supposed decline of the GSD. 
   Kyoto you dismissed a positive step by the SV, you obviously have a different perspective than I do and that is your right, from my view these changes have the potential to substantially help the breed and I don't think they are the only changes we will see. I am willing to wait and see how they will be implemented, I hope you will give them a chance also.

the SV vet that gives the ratings can set the standards like he wants on a piece of paper if he's standards are so high why did they rate several dog's A1 and ED0 when in fact they didn't pass medical test for french and englisch army when pictures were retaken 3months after the SV ratings were given?
and i can assure you they were far from A1 best one our vet would give a B2 and no on hip x-rays you can't always see the extra vertibra an extra picture of lower spinal colum is absolutly necessary
i see about 700 service dogs pass here every year so i strongly believe i see a lot more x-ray's than many vets, i have also seen the many mixes eastern europe and dutch knpv breeders made between GSD and malinois for service dogs resulting in pups about  with the extra vertibra they can say all they want, daddy didn't have the vertibra we checked to be sure his mother did have it mother to the pups(mali) didn't have it neither did her parrents or her sister an brother who also are owned by the same slovakian kennel thats why it will become a huge problem, it can skip at least 1 generation but i'm sure it's iheritable no question about that

You honestly think that the use of the Malinois is not due to a decline in the breed, and not due to a decline in working ability of GS?....of course you are entitled to your views, but I think the next time you meet a police or military trainer....ask them why the Malinois has proliferated in a vocation that the German Shepherd breed worthiness test was patterned after. At least have your views based on the opinions of the people who decide whether Mals or GS are chosen.......most of these trainers PREFER the GS, but the decline of health and working ability has made the Mal a safer, more prudent choice.

Gustav, so you're saying that GSD used to be a 10, but now most GSD is a 7 and 10's are difficult to find and expensive, so folks are settling for Mal which is a 8 or 9?

I will say that this move is a teensy weensy step in the right direction....least ways many people won't run to breed to the Seiger for status and profit.....still it doesn't change the genetics of the winning dogs which will still be the same.

Gustav, I have yet to meet a handler who worked with GSD and then went to Malinois, for whatever reason, but said he prefers the GSD. There is no question about it, the Malinois took over as the premier working dog on the planet today a long time a go. It may be because of the decline in the GSD or the show crap or the prices, but, the Malinois is here and its dominating.
 

Years ago I was talking to a K-9 officer in NYC, her partner was a Czech female GSD. Her first GSD had died from leukemia a few years after she worked at Ground Zero. Anyway, we started talking about the breed and she said she was sad that the NYC PD was no longer looking upon the GSD favorably and were more interested in Malis. She said their dog budget is limited and they were getting tired of laying out big bucks to trainers for GSD's that were not trained as advertised; some were barely trained at all.  BTW she was getting ready to retire and was taking her GSD with her.

Now, don't shoot the messenger, she said it, I didn't. Maybe it's not only the breed? Not referring to anyone here so let's not go there please.  There do seem to be a lot of dog trainers selling dogs to PD's. Are they all qualified?

A friend in the NYC area boards the dogs for Homeland Security, I think they use GSD's only?

@ hired dog.....a lot of the trainers still would prefer the GS, but the facts are the facts. Preferences don't outweigh facts when it comes to performance and the Mals are generally superior these days....that's how you know the breed has declined. People can have their views/opinions, but they can't change the facts.
That's why the VA dogs need new genetics, because this can't change with all the winning dogs being first cousins..

How exactly have these Va dogs (AKA show crap) contributed to or will contribute to the decline of the working lines?

wel i have hired, nadine for example working her mal daily, ipo3 but her heart still lays with GSD, but untill health issues are solved sche sticking to mali's
​the decline isn't a direct result of the VA dogs blitzen, what is a result is the fact that several great GSD never got passed the confirmation part before breeding so therfore weren't allowed to breed
so the standards they are setting with the overangulated, overstreched backs due have an influence on the workingline broodstock in general
further nobody can deniel that when it comes to servicedogs the changed body structure of the GSD is the biggest problem and health issues are influenced negativly by this type of structure
gustav youre right most trainners still favour GSD that's way they tried the mixes,  more k9handlers are suited to work a GSD than a mali, lot of them really have problems changing from their old GSD to a new over the red in drive mali
but healthwise they prefer a mali and after a while indeed hired several never wanne go back to GSD