USA or WDA? - Page 3

what is the differenc between a usa/sv reg. and a usa registration? besides the cost. john

The "stand alone" usa registration program is on hold, so the only active registry is the usa/sv version. Once the stand alone is up and running, the difference will be that usa directly issues the paperwork. The dog does not then appear in the SV breedbook with a number. This "may" affect the ZW hip scheme, as far as reporting and compiling the information. I don't know about that. Essentially, cost, time (the paperwork going to Germany for processing has historically led to unseemly time delays), and perhaps recognition are the differences. When USA talked about having its own registry in 2000, the SV was not happy about it and there were what appeared to be repercussions. Nia

It is my understanding (and I can ALEAYS be wrong...) that after '08 the WUSV will only be recognizing one "parent" German Shepherd Dog Club in each country. Up till now they were recognizing both USA and the AKC-affiliated GSDCA. Not so in future. The really sad part is that some people were so fed up with the AKC and so supportive of USA when USA began their own registration, with the grace of the SV, that they discontinued registering their dogs with AKC altogether. Those people are now out of luck. The AKC is now the only US registry recognized, and the AKC feels no compulsion to accept/honor USA-only registered dogs, especially 2-5 generations later. Sadly, there are factions doubtless laughing to note breeders entire careers going down the tubes for having supported what turned out to be a dead-end registry. One recognized registry = one WUSV team, and that team will be a GSDCA-WDA team. Thus the WDA is and will continue to grow with new members and USA may well hemmorage membership in future. Back to the "candy" scores, I am not seeing them as I go over the WDA results pages, unless you weigh the notorious generouslity of Norbert Feeser in San Diego... But then he was well-known for "generousity" with a USA club (now defunct) headed by the same guy who keeps inviting him to judge trials for his WDA club now. I don't suppose anyone here remembers the scandal associated with Feeser's judging at Feather River SC after I left that club in the late 90's... :((( I think we can categorically throw out anything that man does as a judge no matter what organization the club hosting trials he presides over without a backwards glance. Where Norbert goes, scandal follows. I can't believe he hasn't been thrown out of the SV judges program after some of the s#*t he's pulled... Watch... I'll end up standing in front of that jackass in the next Championship I enter now that I have put my personal opinion of him in print in a public forum... LOL... and I have been "kind" in only mentioning my opinion of him in regards to the dogsport here :-O This is an innappropriate venue for the REST of my personal observations/opinions. BAck tot he scores: Like I said, I am not seeing any blatant "gifts" in the pages of my WDA newsletter. If anything, most of the scores are disappointingly low, with plenty of trials clearly qualifying as complete disasters. :( Call me crazy, but I call anything over 30% ungenung and/or vorhanden in schutzdienst a club wake-up call. Over 40% and its a club DISASTER, especially when there were only 3-6 Schutzhund (non-BH/AD) entries to start with!(Read: Back to the drawing board, boys & girls!) If that's a gift from Santa Claus I'm gonna SKIP Christmas from now on. AS for the "de-frocked" USA judges now officiating in the WDA program, that is a shame... for USA. Mike West, Doug Alexander, Joe Tackett? Those were some of the best, most experienced judges USA had. (The operative term being "HAD" here.) What a travesty to throw a judge out of the USA program for becoming a judge in another club as well! UGH! What's next? Banning SV and SV-foreign judges altogether too? Boy, the organization has come a lo-n-n-g way, huh? Why not go the whole route and change the breed standard, appoint our own Kormeisters and disallow SV and AKC registered dogs categorically while we're at it? JMO Shelley Strohl Shelley Strohl

Shelley, Many of us have allegiance to USA dating back to before the existence of WDA when GSDCA was unaccepting of correct structure and temperament. I still regard anyone affiliated with AKC/GSDCA with some distrust. Additionally I hold them responsible for the destruction of the American branch of our breed and the concurrent miseducation of the American people with regard to the GSD. With this in mind, I may soon be compelled to join the enemy camp since their affiliation with AKC has become their key to legitimacy. I once believed that the world would turn its back on AKC since they have proven repeatedly their incompetence and refusal to maintain health, structural, and working/temperament standards in breeding. It seems that AKC/GSDCA were more resilient, and grew to meet the needs of their membership. Best Wishes, Jonah

There are now 4 USA judges who are FCI approved: Al Govednik Johannes Grewe Mark Przybylski Glenn Stephenson I believe that their titles from now on must be recognized all over the world. I ONLY have a USA scorebook, and have used it at DVG, USA, AWDF and WDA events with no problem.

Jonah, My history with ACK/GSDCA pretty well parallels (sp?) yours. I have no love for what the GSDCA specialty people did to the breed either. I don't think that dog should even be called a German Shepherd, personally. The EDA arm of the organization, however, has to my knowledge never embraced the American showline dog. How could they? ;) I have been a card-carrying member of USA for about 20 yrs. Until I moved to the East Coast (from Northern CA) I used to be very active in the NW Region and USA National events, and intend to be active on the national level again in the very-near future. Once I hit PA I was pretty much out of the sport from late 2000 to last year. Its wonderful to be back. Were I to immigrate to another region of the country I would be a lot more involved in USA at the local/regional level again too. The truth is we don't have enough clubs affiliated with EITHER org. in most parts of the country. There's also a huge difference in club philosophies and collective regional mind-sets from one coast to the other (Read: Night and Day) Its too bad so many people have such a bad taste in their mouths from the GSDCA of old. To them I can only say that the WDA of today is not the same small WDA of 15-20 yrs. ago. (I personally never had any negative experiences with the "old" WDA, unlike DVG-America, which I avoid completely anymore :) The GSDCA-WDA's membership is growing in leaps and bounds with both newcomers to the sport and oldtimers jumping ship from USA. One look at the newly-reinvented, heavy high-gloss paper stock WDA Newsletter is a clear indication of the infusion of new money! I wish the two org's could get along, even coelesce (sp?) to become one group someday, but its not looking good for that with USA's strong seperatist factions continuing to wider the hasm between them and the rest of the world. Our club is strongly a-political. We exist exclusively to train and compete with our dogs and promote the breed we love, curious and concerned about the politics of the national and international parent organizations, but not the least bit interested in participating further than hoping to send a delegate to the next WDA General Board meeting. Frankly, not one member of our club has time even to keep up with what's going on in club politics, let alone be part of the machine, although I suppose someday I will try to involve myself to a larger extent in some less-political endeavor, like entering the judge's program, as fulfillment of responsibility to giving something back to the sport. Shelley Strohl

I have SV, WDA and USA scorebooks. Too bad they are not universally accepted between org's. In order to enter the USA Sieger Show, N. A. and SchH 3 Nationals I have to pay the price to register every adult dog I enter with USA and risk losing difficult to replace paperwork by sending it to the USA office. I have to have my non-USA tattooed, American-born dogs' tattoos "identified" for more time, mileage and money. Thus, not being wealthy by a lo-o-ong stretch, and not have a single mega-bucks backer to assume the expense, I will not be entering as many dogs in USA National events as I would otherwise, particularly the USA Sieger Show in CT. Too bad. Its a gonna be a great event! Hope to see a lot of you there.

Mystere Sorry I didn't mean to shout, if you were referring to me. I just wanted to make it clear that the TITLES are transferrable (provided they are under SV judges). It didn't sound like you agreed. Yes, USA does NOT recognize a WDA "scorebook" (but I don't think I ever said that), thats why the title (from the WDA scorebook) has to be entered in the USA scorebook (by sending both books to the WDA) as opposed to trying to use the WDA scorebook in a USA trial. I was just trying to clearly explain the process to the original poster and didn't want him to think he couldn't use both clubs to his benefit. Regards, Melanie

Just for the record: my reference to "defrocked USA judges" did Not apply to Mike West, as a a subsequent poster seems ti imply. I specifically referenced the 1996 USA GBM minutes in conjunction with the defrocked reference. Forcing a judge to choose organizations was and remains a bad move. My comment, however, had nothing to do with that, as is clear from the 1996 reference (some 4-5 years prior to the West matter). Nia

Any handler who can handle 5, 6, 7, or 14 dogs in one trial has my undying awe. LOL Pray share the names of these super-handlers so I might know who to salute. Ha ha ha I, myself, can't recall ever having handled more than 2-3 dogs in a single event, and that was 10 yers ago when I was younger and stronger and yes, doing it for my living. I can honestly testify that both myself and the dogs I handled were definately present at every event we were entered in, although there were times I wish we'd stayed home and watched the ball game with a couple of beers instead. LOL (The '97 DVG Nationals springs to mind :-O) Anne Marie Chafin is a very good judge. I am also proud of scores I have earned under Mike Caputo, Al Kerr, and a couple of others who have slipped my mind for one reason or another as I slip into absent minded senior citizenship. Hell, I'm even proud of some insufficent scores I have been awarded by USA judges over the years :-D Okay, the 3 pt. FH track in Maine still smarts, but Caputo's funny critique helped a little: "Your dog found the start flag and I gave him full pts. for that. You should have quit while you were ahead." or something to that effect. There are a few very good judges in USA, a few in WDA, and a LOT in the SV. The comment about SV judges being over-generous because they want to come back again is no more disturbing than my own observation of clubs having the same USA "good ole boy" in for their once-annual trial, year in , year out, and a lot less distubing than the number of clubs holding those once-annual-mandatory-for-continued-affiliation trial that can't even manage one single SchH entry from their own club...year after year. Its not supposed to take 6 years to train a dog to a BH, either. Maybe we need a few more "official" titles for develomentally challenged clubs. How 'bout and SN1 "Special Needs 1" or a CSS "Canine Senior Survivor" to go with all those other one and two phase titles people are turning to in order to have enough entries to make their annual trials go? Must be time for Shelley to hit the hay. :-D SS