Schutzhund Training questions for the experts - Page 3

Training puppies and caring for them is a seven day a week job and hanging out with GSDstudent and the "good ole boys" on Saturday at the CLUB won't get it done.  Learn a system such as that by Michael Ellis or Ivan Balabanov and put it into practice.  Using the techniques of Michael Ellis takes practice and with two puppies you will get plenty of opportunity.  I have been to clubs and to seminars and to workshops which costs much in terms of time and money to attend.  I learned more from watching two videos by Michael Ellis than I learned from all of the the other sources combined.  The truth of what Michael Ellis teaches will be apparent when you work with your puppies as they will respond and thrive in his system.  Michael Ellis is so far beyond the boys down at the club that going to a club trainer is like taking marksmanship lessons from Barney Fife.  All that crap about they will be there to help you when you need them down at the club is bogus too!  Club meetings get canceled or the local gurus can't attend.  Weeks go by and you are training on your own (that is the reality any way whether you join a club or not).  Many times the puppy or dog does not act the same on the club field as they act at home.  Teach yourself and educate yourself and do what is right for your dog regardless of what the "good ole boys" down at the club tell you.  Michael Ellis is a master trainer of dog trainers and makes a living doing it and runs a school for dog trainers while the "good ole boys" down at the club are just pretenders.

booboo ; I should not take such pleasure in picking on you, because you make it too easy. Godfrey, Ivan, and Michael all have at least one thing in common. At one time a club took the time to recognize their individual talents and mentor them. They might have expanded on things they were taught but they were given direction from a club. No videos to watch in their early days.  I love the good ole boys and I love the good ole girls. There will be no breed if there is no strong National club. There will be no National club with out good local clubs. There will be no local clubs without good members. All good members were once beginners. Prodigy, go enjoy some videos and then go see the many greats train out at there own field. They might train differently at home then the video producer wants to sell the buying public. Prodigy you can learn from a lot of people. It is an admirable quest you intend to embark on.  enjoy booboo thanks for helping to make my point!

Thank you everyone who has given me some advice/pointers. I appreciate all the comments and will make use of them. I do have some experience with dogs and specifically GSD so I am not at a total loss. I know one puppy can be a handful and two can be at least twice as much:) I figure between myself and my college age son we will get through the puppy stage without too many problems. We are ready for the challenge and just want to ensure we give the best to our pups that we can. I appreciate your help as it will help us in that goal. I was/am curious as far as the concensus of the best imprinting/training.

Thanks again for your posts and PM's,

Prodigy
 

One of the things Gottfried Dildei, Michael Ellis, and Ivan Balabanov have in common is that they made training videos to help those people who only had local yokel club trainers to learn from.  The second things these master trainers have in common is that they quickly outgrew the small minded training methods that the club level training gurus they came in contact with were using and added scientific and intelligent training methods to their systems and that these improved methods have been proven to outperform the bs that the local yokel club trainers then and now were using.

booboo; A little better tone in your latest post. Growth is one thing this great sport will provide. Going back to the orginal post, Prodigy ask for expert opinions. He received more than what he asked for. I hope he or she can take the time to enjoy the sport and contribute to the breed. Playing 7 days a week with your puppys is great. Connecting with people is great. The sport has great rewards and is necessary for a strong breed. One thing I know about 2 out of the 3 great trainers you speak about. They are approachable and will actually speak to you in person! I have met a trained a little with 2 out of the 3 at events.I have not had the pleasure of meeting one of the trio but I bet I could connect with him also, if given the occasion.  I think the events I attended and met these sport greats  were video taped and are for sale. I have no time for those videos as I am off to track and do a little obedience with my dogs. I might do it alone today, my choice.

The only person with a better tone dungmaster gsdstudent is you!!  If my comments about local yokel club training directors hit too close to home that is your problem. If the shoe fits wear it!!   Schutzhund or IPO training is a minor insignificant part of dog training for the GSD or any other breed.  If Schutzhund/IPO fell off the face of the earth tomorrow the training of dogs for both sport and pleasure would continue.  The great sport of schutzhund that Gsdstudent loves himself for being a part of and a local guru of is dying in the USA because of the club system and the exclusionary attitude of the schutzhund organizations and the people who represent them.  Gsdstudent and his kind are so into themselves that they can't see that what they or anyone does in any individual dog sport or activity is insignificant in the big picture of dog training.  I don't NEED a schutzhund club because a club quickly becomes more about ego driven club officers, money and organizational politics local and national than about dog training.  While being approachable is a great attribute if it is useful and Michael Ellis certainly is approachable the fact is that Michael Ellis is in California most of the time and I doubt he calls Gsdstudent for advice or sage counsel about any aspect of dog training.  Anyone who wants to study the Michael Ellis methodology and has the money and time should attend his school.  Michael Ellis teaches principles and methods good for dog training in all disciplines.  Prodigy asked for expert advice and I told her about an expert whom she can get advice from.  Michael Ellis can be accessed through DVD, streaming video or in person at his trainers school in California.  I would love to attend the Michael Ellis school but I am fully engaged with raising and caring for my dogs and being gone for a week or two is neither financially or logistically practical.  I breed, care for, train and love my dogs because I am committed to my dogs and love them.  I could care less about schutzhund as a "great sport" as it is just an activity to do with my dogs and there is an entire world full of opportunities for my dogs that does not depend on schutzhund/IPO.

just back from tracking, 3 dogs. A little obedience with 2, a swim for one and a nice walk with all three. I have just enough time to poke a sore or some call a booboo. How does Michael E feel about your bromance?

prodigy; please study the 3 major directions of breeding available in the USA. Two have used Sport training, as a barometer, for breeding. The sport is now  called IPO  but was called Schutzhund until very recently. You ask for direction. Research is a foundation to gaining information. This data base can be a start for your quest. Sport training, in the form of IPO, is behind every significant dog you will find in your grand search. You will not find this considerable influence in the american sheppard of today. it is for that reason I support any group, from national level to the tiniest training group who focus on sport training. I am sorry for my silly banter with the voice of unreason and will try to stay on focus.

http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=527

Prodigy .. above is a link to a Michael Ellis video "Michael Ellis' Theory on the Foundation of Protection Training Dogs".  If you are new to the biting sports this gives an overview of all the biting sports (KNPV, Mondioring, French Ring, and Belgian Ring) as well as laying out a plan for teaching a dog the protection part (biting) of their education regardless of the sport.  I have never heard a better 90 minutes on the biting sports and about dogs drives and thresholds than that presented in this video.  It is not free but it is going to make you sleep a lot better when you start training your puppies for the biting part of their education if you do schutzhund/IPO or any other biting sport.  You can watch it as many times as you like and have access to it for several years via streaming and it may also be available on DVD.  Also Leerburg answers questions via email as far as I know absolutely free about dog related issues.  Cindy answers many of the questions and she is an excellent trainer.

This feels like a sales thread for Michael Ellis videos