I Need HELP with Gunther(he thinks he owns me) - Page 3

Texasdeb .. how much time away from home does your dog spend around strangers??  I take my young dogs on walks around the outdoor strip mall where I shop for groceries and take him for rides in the car when I go to fast food or drive thrus at the bank .. perhaps he needs desensitizing to strangers on a neutral turf at first and then on home turf.  I also take my young dogs for walks around parks with wide open trails on leash so they can see other dogs and people but at a variable and controllable distance.  Another idea would be to muzzle him with a very good muzzle (basket type) and let him be around strangers and your sons friends in close quarters to see if that changes his posture toward strangers.  Young dogs like young humans try different ways of interacting with dogs and humans to see what works .. when one of my puppies growls at me over a toy or food (which almost never happens) I just wade in and take it away.  They learn very quickly that doesn't work and stop doing it.  Dogs do much the same thing when an older and dominate dog wants their food or toy they may growl but usually the dominant dog just takes the item if they want it just to show their rank .. sometimes they let the younger dog have his or her way and seem amused by the younger dogs behavior.
 

Gunther apparently sees himself as a high ranking male in the social structure of his family group and wants to go to the top.  Establishing his rank as below the other males (son and husband) could settle him back down as the higher ranking males don't need protection from the lower ranking males as a rule.  I suspect Gunther is also asserting his high rank to Texasdeb whom he sees as his highest ranking female family member.  As a young male Gunther is trying to climb the social ladder so putting him back where he belongs in the social structure may help the friend problem.  It could also be that Gunther has a thing for JJ the son's friend for unknown reasons.  That is why I suggested more exposure to strangers away from home to see if he still is as sure of himself away from his home turf.  If Texasdeb doesn't have a kennel or pen to use as a time out for Gunther then a muzzle may be the next best thing.  My dogs are not happy even in a good muzzle and act like I have hurt their feelings when they wear one so it seems to act as a disciplinary tool until they become acclimated to wearing a good one.  I seldom muzzle my dogs but I try to introduce them to one as it may be necessary at some point.

@Blitzen, thanks for the lack of brow beating. I love this dog and want to do what is right for him as well as for the people he comes in contact with. I will PM the individual suggested

Texasdeb, slamdunc would be another member here I would talk to if I had a dog that needed special handling. Good luck.

Sunsilver .. the husband and son need to work the dog in obedience because they are going to be next if they don't establish their rank and control over Gunther.  JJ the son's friend was just a warm up for the real show.

when dealing with escalating aggression; 1] most owners report it is the first episode they have witnessed. When I receive more back ground information I usually can point out to the owner it is not. for example; Dog growls and trys to bite a non-family member. Many times the owner has ignored ''rules'' the dog has made such as '' do not come near my food bowl'' or I will protect it. and many other subtle but ''stepping stone'' behavior. 2] no true pack leadership. 3] a correction is not a correction if the next behavior from the dog is not the proper response. By definition a correction brings to standard. If my radio has static I correct by tuning it to the spot with no static. If I get louder static or just a little less noise it is not corrected. An under-correction by the handler [ who is not established pack leader ] leads to perhaps more of the undesirable behavior. When a dog is under- corrected and continues the bad behavior the correction was really stimulus and promoting more or even worst behavior.The dog running away from the situation is not what you want either. When the dog runs away from the owner, after dominant is demonstrated, the dog ''thinks'' he is still controling the situation. 4] best advice given here, go see some one with real world success with these issues!

I retrain problems like this for living and do schutzhund with my own dogs and I have to disagree that a sport club can really help you. You wouldn't go to an agility club to learn to herd.

I stand with Jim (Slamdunc). Getting advice for your dog's aggression online could be very dangerous for everyone involved. Start looking for a trainer experienced in dealing with aggression.

Aggression is not static. You will fix it or it will spread. You need control and you need it now.

Texasdeb..My username might not ring a bell as you are fairly new I think, but there was a period of time when Ruger1 was quite popular on the forum here. Actually it was my male Ruger vom Mittelwest aka Prince, who I was having aggression issues with...

I would encourage you to do a search on my username Ruger1 and read some of the oldest threads ...My motive in posting to this thread is to encourage you to get off this forum and seek real physical help from a trainer experienced with German Shepherds...

VonIsengard  and Slamdunc ( Jim ) saved my males life...If I would have listened to what I as being told by some others I would have ended up putting my male down...Slamdunc and VonIsengard ( there were a few other too ) stepped up and offered to help me...You can trust them !!...:)

I ended up traveling 6 hours to IL to bring Prince to VonIsengard..She taught me how to handle my male and helped me to understand what I was dealing with...Please if you are able take him to see her..It will be worth every sacrifice you have to make...

I will post some threads..There are so many!!..lol...
https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=423740-thanks-for-the-help
https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=423740&pagen=1


Texasdeb, Don't give up!..Your GSD is worth it and you won't regret it I promise!!..Listen to VonIsengard and Slamdunc..

Deanna...:)

 

Deanna,
You deserve a tremendous amount of credit for diligently working with your dog and not giving up on Prince.  I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and the job you did with Prince.  I never once doubted that you would do it and you really stepped up.  I would agree that Kelly is an excellent person to go to for training with this issue. 

Texasdeb,
I have owned some seriously handler aggressive and some just plain aggressive dogs and it is not always easy.  I also work with some very aggressive dogs.  It takes a lot of work, patience, dedication and the will to not give up on the dog to fix this issue.  Asking for advice here is a start and I applaud you for recognizing there is an issue and seeking help.  Seek out some one to help that not only understands temperament and dog aggression but that also understands you and your relationship with this dog.  From what you have posted I think is a very fixable issue and you just need some help and guidance.  You do need control and to make some changes in how you treat and handle this dog.  Your smart to recognize that there is a problem and now is the time to correct it. 

Feel free to PM me if you like or have a specific question that I might be able to help with.

Deanna -

I've read most (all?) of your Prince threads a zillion times ...your struggle(s) really encouraged us to hang in there with Bosco (who is dog and person aggressive) so thank-you very much for posting these threads. The "Thanks for the help" thread is one of my "favourites". Here is a key quotation from Slamdunc in that thread that much to my shame, took me longer to understand than it should have.

"I think you are too nice and this is very detrimental to your dog.  Stop looking for the nansy pansy trainers and get with one that can teach you how to correct your dog.  I guarantee your dog wouldn't pull that crap with me. The dog needs to learn that he can not display aggression inappropriately and there are severe consequences for that. There is no grey areas in dog training, only black and white."  

As many others have suggested, finding a trainer experienced working with aggressive dogs is very important - we couldn't have "fixed" Bosco on our own (Bosco's breeder helped us). We will always watch Bosco carefully when we are out in public with him and are prepared to remind him of the rules (he will tolerate dogs and people around him).