Capping Drive - Page 3

Slamdunc

Please correct me if I am wrong:  Capping drive is self control of the dog.  Bad (shit) ob does not allow the dog to learn self control.

Your German accent is real bad it seems to be mixed up with french. LOL
 

I do not think capping is synonymous with self control.  I see a lot of dogs that have pretty OB, very correct, but are certainly NOT capped in any way.  For example, this group I used to train with had a few ladies from a local AKC obedience club come out a few times to join us.  We were a Schutzhund group so we train OB a bit differently and are looking for a different result but felt both groups could learn a few things from the other.  Some of the AKC people were blown away by what they saw from our dogs, even dogs that had no titles yet working with novice handlers.  Their previous idea of "drive" was like how our dogs act after they've worked for several hours and then ran an AD.  If anything their dogs displayed an over abundance of self control, in some cases it looked more like the drive had been damn near squashed out of them and they were basically in avoidance.

I think with some dogs you can and should use secondary obedience (I'm thinking in the protection phase now) to help cap drive but that's not only what it is or always how it is done.  For example I have a dog that for a while was coming onto the field and working a bit "meh".  Not bad, and not without drive, but we all knew he had more in him.  We did end up using some OB to help him cap and he came out an exploded.  What I did with him was before his turn I kept him in the van in his crate and had the helper slowly sneak in on him.  I let my dog light up and bark the helper away from inside his crate.  Then I got my dog out and had him heel under control onto the field where I stopped and he naturally sat, I gave him his alert command, and he went NUTS.  Much higher drive than if I got him out and let him drag me and bark his way onto the field.  This works for my dog but doesn't work for some others.  Too much OB in protection at the wrong time can bring the dog down, interrupt the drive or interrupt the dog from being able to switch drives.  It did help that my dog is adult, already titled, and has done a lot of SDA training (a venue where I believe there is more capping built into the trial exercises because it's a lot of alerting the dog and calling the dog back to heel, alerting the dog and calling the dog back to heel).

VKGSD
"I do not think capping is synonymous with self control"

I may be misunderstanding you. Who do you think caps the dog?

The dog has to learn to "cap" his own drive. If you over correct the dog you can take it out of drive but that is not capping. So I think "capping drive" is synonymous with self control.
 

I disagree.  Flip it around...I do NOT believe self control is synonymous with capping.  I've seen dogs with a high level of self control that have very little drive there to cap, and I've seen dogs who can have drive capped but in many places are lacking in self control.  I guess if we are going to define it using other terms I think "channeling" drive makes more sense than self control.

I think I  understand you now . You are think about the total dog and I am just talking about capping drives. If a dog is low or no drives there is nothing to cap. What I am trying to say that the dog has to control it self while in drive to not leak it by spinning or barking or whining ect ect.

Am I the only one...but I have never liked the term "Capping Drive"...I know what people are talking about...but I just don't like that term...I don't think like..."Cap THAT Drive"...I think more of the dog needs to learn how to control themself and to learn to THINK thru their drives...
There are many ways of obtaining this but it depends on the trainer himself and the dog...Each handler/trainer and each dog is an individual and learn differently and have different styles/methods...

I like using Motivational Techniques...but I think of it as a learning curve...I like to apply techniques that will allow the dog to digest and learn what you're trying to teach...Give them time to learn to apply what you're trying to get thru to them...Dog's learn...and each one learns at different speeds and levels...I know for sure that if you begin to teach something to your dog and you then give them time to "sleep" on it...that it will be absorbed and they will try to use it...

To me..."Cap the Drive" is almost a term that seems to mean to "Do It NOW"...Therefore Compulsion comes to mind...and the only way to teach the dog to Cap It!...I think of using Compulsion as the way to "Proof" IT...And that's the way I like to use it...But the dog will determine what and how you need to train...To me one of the best things about training and using Motivational Techniques is to come up with new ideas of how to get IT done without using Force...

So I guess in a nutshell...I think that people are into getting results right away...But I think you should teach and give your dog time to absorb and apply what it is that you're trying to teach...Don't be in too much of a rush...Enjoy the bonding that happens when you take your time and train...Have a Good Time...!

I agree, capping is not just forcing the dog to comply and show self control.  I like what you said "think through the drive".  That is what I have in mind.  I don't like to think of our working dogs as dogs that are so high in drive they are either out of control or we have to physically bring them back down in order to work.  That is not it at all (well, maybe for some, but that's not what capping is about).  I find capping useful even for dogs that do not leak, spin, etc.  I use it a lot with my higher medium drive dog who has always naturally had good self control and secondary obedience in protection.  We still do capping exercises.

Q man I agree 100%.  It is not a term I use either. I am in the process understanding what they are talking about with all of the terms used today, and they are different then 15-20 years ago.  I like high drive but a dog that can not think is useless to me. Many times we will train, give them time to think and and a short session again. I am a big fan of multiple short session rather the one long one, just better results. But sometimes they just have to be put up to think long enough and do it another day. It is just their learning curve.

Fast right now training = undependable dogs from my experience.

Hey Paul,
Lots to read and I apologize for not reading it all.  The term 'capping" does IMO refer to "self control" where the dog's drives are heightened, not squashed just the opposite.  Although the dog is excited in drive and wanting to go the dog has learned to contain itself and remain calm, focused and no leaking of energy or drive.  The dog is like an Olympic sprinter in the starting blocks waiting for the gun to go off.  In drive, ready waiting to go, every muscle about to explode at the moment.  A pro fighter entering the ring, a lion stalking it's prey waiting for it's chance to pounce.  If these athletes or animals were squashed and drive extinguished the moment of action would be a big let down. 

Capping a drive, to me does not always mean "do it now."  It means maintain control of yourself, focus, be ready to go when I tell you it's time to go and not before.  A dog can be taught motivationally to "cap" (since we are discussing this term) and proofed with compulsion.  You must be very careful when proofing with compulsion.  This is something I deal with all the time with our K-9's, the handler must remain calm and in control.  No yelling, no hard heavy handed corrections or the dog will go into overload.  There is IMO, a proper way to correct in this situation.

Paul, I took some video of some dogs doing a building search the other day.  Some were "capped" some were not, the difference is plain to see.  If it is not too boring when I upload it I will send you a link.

Slam

I would love to see your video's