Questions about Nature's Varaity Instinct LID Lamb dry food - Page 3

I actually really liked your experiment. The last kibble I fed to a rescue dog was Earthborn Organics and it turned to mush in about 20-25 minutes. By the time I fed it, it was nice and soupy. Although I dont care for Bill Jac I used to like their food when it was shaped like rabbit pellets. You would add water and within a few minutes it was ready to go.

So dont think I will be feeding your food anytime soon.

Barb

I found this from Dr. Becker, about tapioca, the starch from the cassava root, listed as ingredient number 2 in NVI LID kibble.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/09/05/raw-kibble-pet-food.aspx
 

Grain-free Does NOT Mean Carb-free or Starch-free

In the case of the new "raw kibble" blend for dogs, the second listed ingredient is tapioca. Tapioca seems to be taking the place of grain-based fillers in many pet food formulas of late.

Tapioca is used commercially in pearl, pellet and flour form. As flour, it can be used to make bread and thicken desserts. It mixes well in cold water, turns to gel/paste at 125°F to 150°F, and becomes more gelatinous the higher the cooking temp and length of cooking time.

In the extrusion process used to create dry pet food, tapioca expands extremely well – up to two to three times that of rice.

Tapioca is a starch. In certain regions of the world, including the U.S., tapioca is primarily associated with a flavor of pudding. But in many other countries, it is considered a staple carbohydrate in the diet. On a dry basis, tapioca contains insignificant amounts of protein, ash, fat, and fiber, and not much sugar. It is essentially a pure carbohydrate.

The plant that produces tapioca is known by a variety of names, including cassava. The leaves, stems and skin of the cassava plant contain cyanogenic glucosides which can produce cyanide effects. These effects include development of goiter, pancreatitis, paralysis and death in both people and companion animals. The cassava plant must be properly processed to eliminate these effects.

As kibble binding agents go, tapioca is less problematic than many others. But it isn't nutritious for dogs and cats. And keep in mind it's number two on the ingredient list, which means there's lots of it in the mixture.

This is worthwhile info, too, concerning the importance of moisture content .... do watch!

 

Seeofred,

Both foods you have used are highly rated. It is unlikely a 15 month old dog would be allergic to, or even intolerant of,  the fish in the Origen.  For a review of the Natural Instinct product see http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/natures-variety-instinct-lid/.  

My intact GSD  male was about 15 months old when he developed digestive problems.   First he regularly had loose, voluminous stools.  Then his stomach would rumble, he would pass gas, then spit up bile about 7 hours after eating at least once a week.  After he threw up, he wouldn't eat or drink for about 12 hours, until he had bloody diarrhea like a faucet.  Then he would be fine for another 7-10 days and start the cycle all over again.  Understandably he was losing weight.  Over the past year he was seen by 3 regular vets and an internist, took Flagyl, Tylan, antibiotics, etc., Just about every likely cause (EPI, giardia, etc.) was ruled out.  He had an ultrasound but not a biopsy.  We changed dog food brands as you did and the episodes eventually reduced to every ten days, then 2 weeks, then once last month with just a little bile.  He has slowly gained about 10 pounds.  I can't really say what the problem was.  I suspect, since he was on Natural Balance Lamb LID which was eventually recalled for salmonella, that this played a part, but the doctors say that it is unlikely.

So I certainly wish you luck!  You can do everything right and your dog may still have problems.

Micaho, did you notice how AAFCO determines their ratings? I will bet it was a laboratory analysis only and not a live animal trial. Who has a bag still, and can tell us what it says? They only have to do one or the other. And the ingredients say to me, this is a formula made for a lab analysis, and long-term feeding of this is something I would never do, especially if one bothered to watch that video I posted. 

Just a little common sense should make that obvious? 

And here is some more "Food for Thought" about.... GMO Salmon in dog food.... http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/genetically-modified-salmon-dogs-fish-oil/

So who can say the fish isn't a problem for some dogs?  Wild caught would be advisable, IMHO.

Hi,

Something else to consider, I'd assume and I say "assume" that a more grainy/starchy food will expand faster and more v. a meat based food.
Also consider the stomach acid/digestive enzymes either added by you or in the dog's gut. You don't know what it looks like inside the dog nor how fast they digest it. 

Hi Bee!

Any ratings I am referring to would be from pet nutrition websites like http://www.dogfoodproject.com or http://www.dogfoodproject.com.  AAFCO ratings are some contrived regulations within the pet food industry which don't mean anything to me.  Feeding trials are valuable and I personally feed a food with a 25 year history of producing healthy dogs.  But some newer companies have not been around long enough to have an established record.  I wouldn't rule them out if they appear to use quality ingredients.  On the other hand, lab analysis can be useful to verify foods contain what is listed on their labels and the nutritional availability of the ingredients.

I have seen Karen Becker's video before and it is blatant advertising for her book.  There is no way a variety of home prepared foods with a balanced supplement could be worse for a pet than some of the commercial kibbles.  See http://www.drmarty.com/feeding.htm for another list of best to worst feeding practices.  Advice seems to be relative to what you are trying to sell.

My recommendation would be to feed 2 meals a day, even 3 if possible.  If a dog has a problem with digesting any food, at least the stress to the system will be spread out over the day.   





 

Micaho,
I went to that site, to check things out, the dogproject one, but it was last updated in 2009. So, I said, eh?

I don't fault people for wanting to write a book to share their expertise. You want to discount some real good common sense because you don't want her to make a profit on her book? See, the tapioca (starch) and the clay (is only added as non-caking agent)... if you read what NVI LID says about their own purpose in using it.... that leaves you with the lamb meal and coconut oil!  With expandable fillers that rob the body of moisture.  How does that sound good for the long term... for any dog? 

 

Micaho:  Did you ever get the results of the TLI test from your vet.  If so, what was the number just for interests sake?? And... what food did you finally settle on?

My girl, had exactly the same symptoms as your dog, exactly.  My vet ran the TLI test and didn't call me to tell me the number, but when I phoned a week later to ask she said 4.9 which is not EPI.
Maya kept losing weight and was so sick that I thought as a last resort I would take her to Guelph and phoned my vet for the test results to be faxed to me. That is when she told me to bring maya in and we would start her on enzymes because although she wasn't "technically" EPI her number was fairly low since I think the top of the scale for normal is 25.

She is on enzymes and vitamin B-12 supplementation and we haven't looked back since.  She has gone from 54 pounds ( at her worst ) to 95 pounds today.

So I just wondered what food your pup is on and maybe I could try it and maybe, just maybe be able to reduce her enzyme supplementation.

\Thanks

Hi all,
Thank you again for posting your comments.

As for Karen Becker's video, I must agree with Micaho, IMHO it is a blunt advertising for her book. However there is nothing wrong with her advertising and placement / rankings of dog food types. I tend to agree 90% with the placing she made.
I did find some more information  in regards to use of Montmorillonite Clay in dog food.
http://natureslogic.blogspot.ca/2010/09/natural-montmorillonite-clay-in-pet.html
http://www.allnaturalpetcare.com/Holistic_Pet_Remedies/Edible_Green_Calcium_Montmorillonite_Clay_Bulk_Powder-Pets.html

In my specific case, my dog never through-up, maybe 1 or 2 times over the course of one year, but that was not related to the food, rather to digestion of some external elements (wooden stick) that he should not be eating in the first place. :)
As for Instinct LID Lamb, so far the results are OK. He has been on it since March 26th  (13 days). He likes to eat it but he was never a picky eater. His stools are all firm. However I would like them to be a little more moist (10-20% more moisture) then what their are right now. He has 3 to 4 bowel movements in 24 hours. Stools are not big in volume, they are rather small. Stools do not have any strong smell, rather their smell is minimal. I also have to say that in 12 days on this food my dog has gained over 2 pounds. 
As already stated, It is too early to say that this type of food is the one that works bets for my dog, However, up to this point I must say that (judging by the stools and weight gain) this type of food works better than Orijen for my dog. Time will tell if this 13 days of positive experience was just temporary or permanent.

I guess everybody has different experience with the same type of food, it is manly because digestive systems in all of our dogs are different. i.e. what works best for you does not mean it will work best for me.

P.S.Please note that from time to time I also supplement my dog with some green lamb or beef tripe.





 

Stools must be hard as bricks.