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by dragonfry on 01 April 2013 - 10:04
The nursing dog in the photo does not appear to have been trimmed. As a former dog groomer i know what they should look like. Even a few weeks out from being trimmed. Heck that dog doesn't even looks recently bathed. :p
The liver nose on the mother would send me waling the other way. Even white shepherds should have black points. Like the eye rims, nose, foot pads. She is way long on the body and the father looks to be very short in the back? Can't tell anything form the female lying down. Other then she has champaign markings on her ears. And a dudley nose.
If you want a white fluffy nortic herding dog get a Samoyed.
The liver nose on the mother would send me waling the other way. Even white shepherds should have black points. Like the eye rims, nose, foot pads. She is way long on the body and the father looks to be very short in the back? Can't tell anything form the female lying down. Other then she has champaign markings on her ears. And a dudley nose.
If you want a white fluffy nortic herding dog get a Samoyed.
by beetree on 01 April 2013 - 10:04
But, I have still not found the explanation for the coats that grow long continuously as in the Maltese, Yorkshire Terrier, Afghan Hound. Or coats that are super short like the Doberman, Bulldog, Dalmatian
I was taught that the reason hair falls out at a certain time is based on "weight". That is why our eyelashes fallout and don't grow continuously, for example. The genetics for that trait, are maybe not linked to a color, perhaps? Maybe our genetic experts might help out with this theory?
by riverlandwhites on 02 April 2013 - 01:04
The case is resolved, thanks, no further action necessary!
It was nothing short of a crime investigation procedure. Here you have the whole story for your enjoyment - and warning.
Please note that none of the dogs we are talking here about is represented on this pedigree database website. Therefore, no harm has been done to its credibility. For very good reasons I chose to discuss this tender case first among experts on neutral international grounds, rather than on breeders' forums in my own country.
The breeder who owns the dam (the plushy looking one who gave birth to the clearly short-coated one who now has pups herself), this breeder herself describes this dam on her own website as a "beautiful long coated" female who she imported from overseas. I have meanwhile asked a previous high-ranking club member who knows this breeder and her dogs in person for her assessment, and she confirmed to me that this dam is indeed a genuine longhair and therefore, the alleged longhair father could not possibly produce a short-coated puppy with her. We found out that this breeder also had a then still very young short-haired male on their property at the time when the litter was created. This male was later approved for breeding and is now a much wanted stud in our country. He is most likely the true father. Possibly this litter was fathered by both males ... but the breeder definitely put the wrong father's name knowingly on the litter registration form. When the puppies were sold at 8 weeks of age or later, everyone would be able to see that at least this one female pup was short-hair not long-hair - as did the new owners who received a puppy by plane who was missing all the cuddly fur which they had expected and who were therefore very disappointed, as they wanted to breed long-coated White Shepherd Dogs. They already had bought another longhair boy puppy of our breed from another club member, so they were able to immediately compare. I assume that, at that time, the registered breeder's young short-haired male was not yet hip & elbow scored and not yet approved for breeding and that this breeder did not want to admit that 'an accident happened'. So, she sold the short-haired puppy (or puppies) of this 11-head strong litter to people who were asking for 'a pet only' and preferably lived far, far away. Well, at least this one puppy girl got into the hands of people who wanted to breed (as unregistered breeders outside of clubs and organisations) and are now using the parents' certified pedigrees as proof that their pups are indeed purebred. I stumbled across their ad, because I was looking for a male who I can mate with my own 3 newborn girl pups in 1 1/2 - 2 years, if they turn out well. These unregistered breeders were offering their pups at half or a third of the price as all other (registered) breeders and claimed that their puppies have papers of our club. So, I looked into it.
The outcome is: These people who intended to breed from the very start, have obtained a puppy girl who was meant to remain hidden from the public - one with false pedigree papers. And I would have almost bought a son of her - a male who has EXACTLY THE SAME FATHER as my own three future bitches. I had travelled with my one only (now 6 years old and retiring) breeding bitch 4,000 km by car to mate her with this specific, now highly acknowledged and recognised, beautiful short-hair male of our club, to make her very last litter something truly special. An emergency Caesarian and about $7,000 in upfront expenses later, we got 3 girl pups out of it who are all intended for future breeding (provided they pass all the health and temperament tests). Now, because of a colleague breeder lying in her litter registration because she obviously wanted to save her 'good reputation', I almost bought their own half-brother to be their mating partner - in the 'ideal' case for up to 12 or 16 litters times up to 10 pups each! This makes up to 160 pups floating around our small country and being used for further breeding, all with wrong pedigree papers, over the next decade or so! Inbreeding brothers and sisters was the very last thing I would ever want to do and my number one priority and the main reason why I put so much effort and so much money into producing this last one litter of our first mother WSD. I am so happy we found out the truth before I bought this little boy pup. And the only clue was the length of his mother's and grandmother's coat.
It was nothing short of a crime investigation procedure. Here you have the whole story for your enjoyment - and warning.
Please note that none of the dogs we are talking here about is represented on this pedigree database website. Therefore, no harm has been done to its credibility. For very good reasons I chose to discuss this tender case first among experts on neutral international grounds, rather than on breeders' forums in my own country.
The breeder who owns the dam (the plushy looking one who gave birth to the clearly short-coated one who now has pups herself), this breeder herself describes this dam on her own website as a "beautiful long coated" female who she imported from overseas. I have meanwhile asked a previous high-ranking club member who knows this breeder and her dogs in person for her assessment, and she confirmed to me that this dam is indeed a genuine longhair and therefore, the alleged longhair father could not possibly produce a short-coated puppy with her. We found out that this breeder also had a then still very young short-haired male on their property at the time when the litter was created. This male was later approved for breeding and is now a much wanted stud in our country. He is most likely the true father. Possibly this litter was fathered by both males ... but the breeder definitely put the wrong father's name knowingly on the litter registration form. When the puppies were sold at 8 weeks of age or later, everyone would be able to see that at least this one female pup was short-hair not long-hair - as did the new owners who received a puppy by plane who was missing all the cuddly fur which they had expected and who were therefore very disappointed, as they wanted to breed long-coated White Shepherd Dogs. They already had bought another longhair boy puppy of our breed from another club member, so they were able to immediately compare. I assume that, at that time, the registered breeder's young short-haired male was not yet hip & elbow scored and not yet approved for breeding and that this breeder did not want to admit that 'an accident happened'. So, she sold the short-haired puppy (or puppies) of this 11-head strong litter to people who were asking for 'a pet only' and preferably lived far, far away. Well, at least this one puppy girl got into the hands of people who wanted to breed (as unregistered breeders outside of clubs and organisations) and are now using the parents' certified pedigrees as proof that their pups are indeed purebred. I stumbled across their ad, because I was looking for a male who I can mate with my own 3 newborn girl pups in 1 1/2 - 2 years, if they turn out well. These unregistered breeders were offering their pups at half or a third of the price as all other (registered) breeders and claimed that their puppies have papers of our club. So, I looked into it.
The outcome is: These people who intended to breed from the very start, have obtained a puppy girl who was meant to remain hidden from the public - one with false pedigree papers. And I would have almost bought a son of her - a male who has EXACTLY THE SAME FATHER as my own three future bitches. I had travelled with my one only (now 6 years old and retiring) breeding bitch 4,000 km by car to mate her with this specific, now highly acknowledged and recognised, beautiful short-hair male of our club, to make her very last litter something truly special. An emergency Caesarian and about $7,000 in upfront expenses later, we got 3 girl pups out of it who are all intended for future breeding (provided they pass all the health and temperament tests). Now, because of a colleague breeder lying in her litter registration because she obviously wanted to save her 'good reputation', I almost bought their own half-brother to be their mating partner - in the 'ideal' case for up to 12 or 16 litters times up to 10 pups each! This makes up to 160 pups floating around our small country and being used for further breeding, all with wrong pedigree papers, over the next decade or so! Inbreeding brothers and sisters was the very last thing I would ever want to do and my number one priority and the main reason why I put so much effort and so much money into producing this last one litter of our first mother WSD. I am so happy we found out the truth before I bought this little boy pup. And the only clue was the length of his mother's and grandmother's coat.
by Hundmutter on 02 April 2013 - 09:04
I have said this before, on the White Shepherd Forum, and I will
repeat it again now: with a few exceptions, 'white shepherd/GSD'
history is absolutely RIDDLED with this sort of underhand, money-
grabbing, lying behaviour. What else can one expect from people
who want to take an established breed and produce novelty coats
and colours from it, to the extent of seeking recognition as a 'new'
breed, when they have consistently put poor-quality specimens to
other poor-quality specimens JUST BECAUSE they perpetuated a
'rare' (!!!) colour which would sell easily to the pet market ? Usually
without any regard to the history of poor hips, or epilepsy, carried along
with their version of breeding. Unfortunately, its that 'cuddly bundle of
white fur' the public want, rather than the real German Shepherd Dog.
repeat it again now: with a few exceptions, 'white shepherd/GSD'
history is absolutely RIDDLED with this sort of underhand, money-
grabbing, lying behaviour. What else can one expect from people
who want to take an established breed and produce novelty coats
and colours from it, to the extent of seeking recognition as a 'new'
breed, when they have consistently put poor-quality specimens to
other poor-quality specimens JUST BECAUSE they perpetuated a
'rare' (!!!) colour which would sell easily to the pet market ? Usually
without any regard to the history of poor hips, or epilepsy, carried along
with their version of breeding. Unfortunately, its that 'cuddly bundle of
white fur' the public want, rather than the real German Shepherd Dog.
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