Nerve Issues or not? - Page 3

I've seen a fear of thunder manifest itself in a couple of my own dogs, typically when they were older.  It's not something I particularly like to see but have always considered it bleed-through of a self-preservation instinct from before they were domesticated.  I can think of nothing in nature that produces low frequency sound that isn't catastrophic or at least potentially dangerous to a wild canid.

Worth adding that the bitch I wrote about did not appear to be afraid 
of thunder while she was living with me, as an outside kennel dog,
but has become so since living indoors with her current family.  Now,
her 'mom' has SAID that SHE isn't afraid of thunder ... but like I said
I think people hide it well, from other people (and maybe themselves)
- but you can't fool a dog, can you ?  A further factor is that this dog
was rescued as a stray before she was with either of us, so who knows
what she learned in her puppyhood ?
 

My young male working lines GSD (almost 2 yrs) is scared to pieces of my 12 year old Shih Tzu female who puts the run on him any chance she gets.  But he will stare down a big black bear and chase it off.  Re the Shih Tzu, she's the boss of the house, or thinks she is, and has him fooled.  I don't think they recognize size as an issue.  It is context.  It's pretty funny none the less!

AUBS47,
we also had a female German shepherd that detected storms coming without a cloud in the sky.
She was a great dog and wasn't afraid of anything else, but she sure did not like storms. She would start pacing and then find her "spot"
within hours a lightening/thunderstorm would hit.
Bonnie.

I just can't see how any dog, of any breed can be labeled as having nerve issues because of one particular fear of something. I can totally understand if the dog had issues with being fearful of several or many things. But one thing like thunder, which is a common fear of many dogs of different breeds, I definitely do not consider that nerve issues or an unsound dog.  JMO

​Also I do not think that just because a dog hits a slevee is a sign of a sound dog. Many unsound dogs will hit a slevee out of fear. There  is a difference and if a person can read a dog, he should be able to know the difference. I do .  

What Jim and I are saying is that often when you expose dogs to different environmental stresses, you start to see cracks that are from nerves that just plain titling a dog won't expose. Like dogs that won't do heights, dogs that won't do water, dogs that won't go over iron grates, or have problems with moving flooring, or empty buildings at night with threats in them, or up certain types of stairs, or sometimes in these situation the dog's performance because of unsureness or worry will greatly alter effectiveness and timing. None of these things will be flushed out on grass of training field, but trust me a lot of people who swear "their dogs are not afraid of anything else but thunder", oops got some more things that unnerve dog to point that dog can't be reliable in that situation. That's why you see less and less GS as police dogs ......and also many people who assume stellar nerves, no biting a sleeve is not an indicator of good nerves in itself. There is an old expression  among old timers that goes" many dogs find comfort in the sleeve".........and some of them score very high in sport events.
btw, in these instances I am talking about having an effect that training will never make the dog reliable in that environment and encountering stress also.....like a police or military dog has to endure. Lotta people only know as much about nerves in dog as the exposure the person and their training has taken them. Still because of breed specializations today, many many GS will no longer do well under thes situations and they have nothing to do with biting or aggression.....so what do you people attribute these deficits too?

Well Gustav, as you know, I don't train for Schutzhund;  but I, for one,
live with my dog (s) of the moment, I walk them in all sorts of places,
and believe me I notice whether any of them are wobbly about heights
or stairs or water or traffic or street furniture or screaming kids or strange
shapes or noisy vehicles or odd surfaces ... do I really need to go on ?
I agree you and Slam have a good point, but it is one that really is only
relevant to that number of owners who do nothing but train with their dogs
and take them nowhere except from home / kennel to training club field
and back. Or who are such bad dog owners they notice nothing, even if
they witness it. So, not most of us out here then ?

"There is an old expression among old timers that goes, "many dogs find comfort in the sleeve".....and many of them score high in sports events."

So with this said, and so many breeders that used titling their dogs in sport events, as a measure of breed worthiness, is it a wonder why our breed is headed in the direction it is.?  
I am not saying that all titled dogs fall under this. There are many awesome titled dogs that are worthy of their titles. But on the other hand, as the old saying goes............

Hundmutter, that was very well said. I neither train or participate in sport or titling our dogs. However, like you and many others out dogs do not go from the kennel to the training field as a means of being worked.  Our dogs are worked not only on the training field but in the park taking that casual walk, a trip to Petco or the store, going out to social gatherings of many kinds and also making routine visits to the nursing homes. YES, I just described the dog this thread was about.

 We don't get titles for this but if a dog can do all these things with confidence and no issues, AND are able to get health certifications, what makes ours dogs less breed worthy than a titled dog, or a titled "dog that finds comfort in the sleeve?"  Not trying to start a debate, but just stating my opinion.  

HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!  

 

There is no difference in a Sch III bad nerved dog and a non titled bad nerved dog, and neither animal should be bred. I have heard many times"my dog is as good a that titled dog" and I cry "BULL CRAP" You do not know what your dog can or will do until you do it.  But that being said, We all need to be honest about out dogs and what they are and what they do. If they have a problem fix it and if they have fears that they can not overcome help them with them, but do not breed them. Not every dog you love needs to be bred.

I am speaking of GSD's and what was intended of them.

If my untitled dog can track, and find what I am looking for, and if it can do all kinds of obedience, it can go around a object and bark at a non moving man and not bite him when told, and will protect  me when needed, and fetch a dumbbell over a wall. He is a good as a titled dog, Now I should take a half a day and get my dog titled. But I should not say my untitled dog can do or is of the same quality as a titled dogs until I have passed the test.

This test has been put in place to HELP see if the dog is worthy to be bred, not that is an end all of all things but designed to show what the dog is. Sch is not a sport, it is a test, people cheat on the test and make it a sport.  

I am not saying all GSD,s need to be Sch titled.  PD,Ring ect. all have a different angle of work that work for what they are doing. But if you are going to breed your dog and claim they are quality, prove it.

Sorry Hutchins I've got to go with what Paul is saying. Being nervous of thunder
does not automatically make any dog a genetic nerve-bag, I do agree. But I too
would be careful of breeding with that dog, because the fact that it learned to
hate thunder (somewhere) has to be part of its inherited learning capabilities. So
perhaps that can be passed on as a genetic component. I would have to weigh that
factor up in the mix, as to whether I considered the individual 'breedworthy'. But as you
all know by now, I consider there are far too many GSDs bred, and that whoever breeds
any litters ought to be taking a considerable amount of care with every bit of info
they have about the pairing, anyway ! Have a good Easter weekend.