Is anyone linebreeding on Belschik or Ufo?????????? - Page 3

Belschik was 60 cm and 68# as per his breed survey.  I met him when he was old.  He was very approachable, but had an air of confidence that said "I own the world".  He was known to be very rank with a high level of social aggression and was not an easy dog to handle.  He produced dogs good for police work and crossed well with my bitch.  I may do a linebreeding some day, but only if the right male comes along for one of my girls. 

I meant to add that my Belschik daughter produced 2 smaller males and 6 large males (85# up to well over 90#).  The females have all been around medium sized. 

Lisa

"I've always loved Belschik's physical appearance, in addition to his work ethic--though it wouldn't break my heart if the screeching trait fell by the wayside....as long as the loss of it didn't diminish the rest. "


Hexe, LOL  I know what you mean and agree. 

Lisa

Hexe etc
The comments I made were referencing undersize dogs, not dogs within the 
standard. Obviously there is a difference.
 
And, while it's great to hear feedback on a direct breeding, the question posed here
was about linebreeding on the dog, not direct progeny.

Once again, if memory is correct, when Rinus did the 'Optikas D' nest, which was
linebred 2-3 on Belschik, that was a mixed bag of results, yes the progeny had
off the charts drive etc, but there was control issues with Dark as well as undersize
issues with the litter. I see Dark is listed as being SG, but I'm not sure thats an
accurate rating. So again, I will stick by the comments I made in regards to both size
being a possible serious issue as well as clarity, ability to cap etc.

workingdogz... nevermind lmao

workingdogz, it sure doesn't appear that Rinus considered the Optika's D litter a bust, given that Dusty gave him five litters, and is considered to be an excellent producer of dogs for law enforcement as well as sport venues. At least two others in that litter went on to produce for UK law enforcement, too, so that doesn't sound like a 'mixed bag' result to me.  Of course, that wasn't just a 2-3  linebreeding on Belschik--it was also a 2-3  linebreeding on Rani Daelenberghutte as well...and Rani is every bit as much a legend in the breed as Belschik, for equally as good reasons, so how much of the credit for the production record is due to Belschik vs Rani could be debated endlessly, as could the question of whether it was the 2-3 linebreeding on that exact pairing which was the key to the results.

[vomeisenhaus, you got the HUGE midgets reference, no?]

A friend's litter, on the ground now.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/breeding.result?father=663041&mother=576705

Hexe,
I am not sure where I stated Rinus thought the 'D' litter was a bust?
Could you please point that out to me?

And again, I believe I also said you would also have to take into account the other dogs
being linebred on as well. So again, you have pretty much re-iterated what I already
said a couple of times.    

One more time for clarity, if one is going to linebreed on Belschik, you will want to
watch size, and of course clarity of nerve & temperment. Also watch for missing testicles. 
A litter of 6 that produces dogs of a mixed bag of  size is not consistent to me, if it is for you,
then we have different ideals, and thats fine. It seems to have been a theme in the few litters
that were sired by him in this country. And that was done by people that were trying to 'recreate'
the V litter Dalenberghutte through Berry v Neuen Lande etc- Belschik-Rani type cross.
While the drive and working ability was mostly passed on, the typical shreiking he did was too, 
and some had experienced a real problem in trying to get these dogs to stay clear in their work.
I would imagine if you kept trying to concentrate that you might end up with a heck of a problem
down the road. A dog can have all the drive in the world but if his brain cannot balance it out, 
he's not much good is he?

I'm done, I have stated several times some things someone may want to take into close
consideration when doing a linebreeding on one particular dog, and it's rather tiresome to
have to repeat it because someone seems to want to prove that a small to medium size dog
is somehow 'better' than a larger dog. Whatever dog gets the job done is the best dog for that job.
The one thing that I would be concerned about would be undersize, please read that, not small
or medium, undersized dogs resulting from linebreeding on this particular dog.

@workingdogz....I have heard and seen some of the same things you have written out of Belschik and dogs descending from him....some of us realized that you were speaking in general and Not every litter or case will experience this as things always change with different dams and even repeat litters. The more knowledgable breeders often have long exhausting conversation about these kinds of generalizations so as to gain knowledge on certain lines and dogs when the dog or line is the common denominator. Unfortunately, some people will take dialogues like this and try to always find the exception or a case where it didn't happen to discredit the generalization....Hey, it a general finding to look out for, nor more or no less...nothing is absolute, but some people are. ( I remember somebody adamantly telling me that because of THEIR experiences you can't say that line breeding on Crok will produce handler aggression......OKAAAAY, time for me to exist discussion) What I am saying Workingdogz is that I have found it is better to give out this kind of information in private....too many people with inability to cap defensive feelings just as with our dogs.....too many people want to take a piece of what you say and attribute it to farther reaches than what you said or intended. Let the masses eat cake!

Workingdogz- Thank you so much for sharing your experience with this particular bloodline! Us newbies always beg and plead for you experienced fanciers to share knowledge of lines to make us aware of any positive OR negative traits that *may* exist. However, when someone does share these obseravtions people attack them. It really pisses me off- to be quite frank. Please ignore the negative comments and continue to share your knowledge (This goes for you too Gustav)  about traits within bloodlines. I, for one, truly appreciate the honesty!!!! 

Sarah Minsk

My large male has Optikas Dark -  in his line - currently weighs in at 41 and 1/2 kilos and is certainly no screamer - although he does bark very loudly when anyone comes near!!  Great temperament.  Very focused.

OPTIKAS DARK	XAMM V D DAELENBERGHUTTE (IMP BEL)	BELSCHIK VON EICKEN-BRUCHE 1XWUSV, SCHH3 (G-BSP), FH1 Kkl 2
		RANI V D DAELENBERGHUTTE
	ZOHRA V D DAELENBERGHUTTE (IMP BEL)	UGO VON BERENSWALD
		VICKY V D DAELENBERGHUTTE