OBAMA ???. - Page 3

Gouda, if you want to take prophetic passages literally all the time, then you will fail to see the deeper meaning. Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9:1ff, Galatians 3:29, all are talking about the way that Christians are the spiritual Israel, the spiritual descendants of Abraham. Jeremiah 31 has its greatest fulfillment in the church, not in literal Israel. Hebrews 8 makes this painfully obvious. People often times are so desperate to believe in Premillenialism and the physical nation of Israel that they would close their eyes to the deeper meaning of the Bible.

You being a minister have a much greater responsiblility than anyone else to make sure you preach the correct word of God. GSDguy.  You still haven't started a new thread answering my questions, but answer one here quickly please.  If/when the micro chip becomes mandatory, will you instruct your congregation that it is ok to get it? and will you get it?

The red pill or the blue one?

Red Sable I've been busy. Believe me there is much to put on that one post itself, and I've only had enough time to post a couple of short comments today. I don't think (not saying you don't realize this) many realize how much work preachers really do.  It's more than "an hour a week" by all means lol. I teach two classes and preach two sermons. That within itself takes a good portion of the day considering how many hours it takes to study/write/prepare each day, on top of the "dog work" I do as well. I've got the first section complete for you already, but I may wait until I get all of what I want to type up, typed. Since I'm trying to cover (in part) the entire book of Revelation (not a short task).  The mircro chip though;  are you stating it to be like the "mark of the beast"?

is a glorious finale to Israel’s long history.

How Did the Church Decide the Demise of Israel?

The New Testament Church was very much involved with the vicissitudes of Israel. Jesus is an Israeli, as were all the apostles, and the concerns of Israel, spiritually and politically, were very much a part of their lives. The greatest struggles the early Church had were over the relationship between Israel and the Church, law and grace, and the fellowship between Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ (Galatians). Many of the Jewish believers were not comfortable with the Gentile believers at first; and as time went on and Gentiles began to predominate numerically, the attitudes were reversed. Galatians shows how the Jewish party tried to impose the Mosaic Law on Gentile Christians, and Romans shows how the Gentile party began to “boast against the branches” (Rom. 11:18), resenting the place of Israel in history and theology.

It took some time, perhaps a couple of centuries, but eventually the vast Gentile majority in the Church began to view Israel as a vestigial organ that had outlived its usefulness. In fact, the predominant Christian view was that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by the Romans in 70 AD signaled the official and divinely-ordained end of the Jewish nation, never more to be re-instituted as a national entity. The fact that Jerusalem lay in ruins and the Jewish people were scattered over the world was seen as conclusive evidence that God was forever finished with national Israel. If there were any purpose for the existence of the Jewish people, it was to remind the world of the severe judgment of God upon a disobedient people.

If this harsh view of Israel were true, though, what of the promises of God to Israel in the Old Testament? For those who claimed to believe in the entire Bible as the Word of God, this was a great problem. How could a faithful God not keep His promises to His ancient people? To deal with this took extraordinary theological dexterity and alchemy. The theologians had to propose that Israel in the Scriptures did not really mean Israel, especially when it came to the promises of eternal blessing. Instead, Israel meant something else, something that came to be known in the New Testament as the Church. The Church became the new Israel, and through this remarkable transformation, wherever blessing is promised to Israel in the Old Testament, it was interpreted to mean the Church. This is Replacement Theology, in which the Church has become Israel.

Replacement Theology was already around before the end of the First Century, but did not become the official position of professing Christian leadership until Augustine popularized the concept, primarily in THE CITY OF GOD, in the latter part of the Fourth Century. Augustine actually states that he was previously a Chiliast, meaning that he was a believer in the thousand-year reign of Christ on the earth after His return. This is the same as our current description of Premillennialism. However, he had come to the conclusion that this view was “carnal,” and had adopted the view that the reign of Christ would be something more “spiritual,” and would actually occur during the Church Age. Such a view necessitated the extinction of Israel, and the cancellation of all promises God made to the Jewish nation. These promises of blessing would now be fulfilled within the framework of the Church.

This view, which had been latent in Christendom, now flourished throughout the Byzantine world. From this point on, the theological legs were cut out from under Israel, and the predominant Christian theology was that there was no future for Israel. Replacement Theology has been the rule that has survived the Middle Ages, the Crusades and the Reformation in Church History. Only during the last Century or so has the Premillennial concept of the future of Israel come to the forefront in evangelical Christianity. Even so, it is a minority view.

Does Israel’s Future Demean the Church’s Glory?

Some suggest that if Israel has not ceased to exist in its covenant relationship to God, and if Israel still has a future in the divine plan, this somehow diminishes the position of the Church. Is such a concern valid? It is almost as though the Church has been jealous of Israel, and afraid that if it recognized Israel’s future promises, it would somehow demean Christ and the Church. Nothing could be further from the truth.

It is when the Church recognizes Israel that the true distinctiveness and glory of the Body of Christ becomes evident. This called-out body, composed of believing Jews and Gentiles during the Church Age, is the highest entity the Lord has created, superior to the universe, all the Angels, the nations, and Israel. Our Head, our Husband, our Friend is the Son of God Himself. We shall reign with Him when He rules the earth, and our 12 Founding Apostles will rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. The Angels themselves will study us forever as the greatest exhibit of God’s grace, and we will actually judge the Angels. This is our destiny, and this writer, for one, would not trade his position in the Body of Christ with any creature in the universe! Why, then, be disturbed over what God has promised the Jewish people? Why be jealous over the future destiny of Israel? How short sighted of us! Indeed, the Church’s finest and most distinctive hour will be when Israel is restored nationally and spiritually to the Lord at the Second Coming of Christ. We will return from Heaven with Him as His glorious Bride to rule Israel and the world. What more could we ask?

So, if we are not to suffer from spiritual myopia, we must recognize what the Lord is doing with Israel, not shrinking from it as though our own interests will be overshadowed. Rather, we rejoice in these developments, with full assurance that our own redemption

    GSDguy08  studdy the whole book of Roman

  gouda

Gouda, I did not read all of that. My time is always limited in the days.  But where did you get that information?  I'll try to post something along with the book of Revelation post dealing with "premillennialism", and a few other things.

Yes, guy, I am.

Here is a website that believes much like you, am I correct?  Concerning the end times, Israel,  and the Mark of the Beast. :)

http://www.bibleprophecytruth.com/topics/israel-in-prophecy.aspx

http://www.bibleprophecytruth.com/topics/mark-of-the-beast.aspx

It will save you typing it all out for me, as I've read and listened to this minister. ;)

http://www.pawcreek.org/open-bible-dialog/the-dark-clouds-of-hatred-directed-against-israel

     gouda

RS, I read the first and it is pretty accurate

I know this is asking alot. But as it would be profitable for some to ask if the contributors to the discussion would mind saying what church affiliation or denomination you are. If this discussion is to far off original topic we could start another thread.

Hank