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by vithala on 07 November 2010 - 16:11
To duke1965 and others,
I understand your concern about getting the dog you want from the advertised "Czech" dogs. I too have the similar problem, when I am doing my research project for my Book and DVD, Interviews with GSD Legends, I found the same hurdle.
When you go to this website and you see a pic, or read a message thread about a dog, or you see a video of them, it is a fraction of the truth.
As Prager has alluded to many times, it is maybe a simple process but not simplistic and certainly not easy! Knowing the dogs, breding what you want is more than putting two great Czech dogs or any others together. And sadly to say it is not so easy and possible to build a breeding program on research done from pics and pedigree!
I have a mentor in Ajay Singh from Patalia kennels and he sees the dogs work! The studs he uses are not always popular, but either he has seen them, or has a good friend with the right experience in the dog world check it out. He has a clear idea of what he wants, and can't and won't rely on surface level information to chose a stud or a pup.
Pics and pedigree reliance on whether the dog is czech or not can only carry us so far. And to be brutally honest, if we as buyers don't educate ourselves with better information than the advertisement of -It's a Czec Dog, so it will jump over the moon and give you what you want.... then it is our fault, and responsability to ensure this does not happen.
"What do we do if we live very far and don't have access to this?" one might ask? Well, it may be tough, but quality and achievement has never been easy to come accross.
I personally just took my bitch almost 8000km for a breeding! It is a choice, and the stud used, represents what I want and was recommended by many that I respect. Then I investigated for myself.
The bitch I used is from strong working lines, I trialed her myself in a country where Schutzhund is now starting and travelled with her on trains, planes and buses. I have had helpers from Belgium, Germany, Holland and the US work her on and off the field. I learnt about her pedigree from cursory research, but I learnt about her from experience. I did not buy her titled, (although I am not condemning this), and she is not perfect in the sport, probably because of me, but I really know her.....
Now if after all of this I have 2 pups for sale and someone would rather go to a advertisement for "Czech Dogs" because that name conjures up the characteristics in the breed that Prager described, than to come to me after I have done my field testing and expierencial learning, then the buyer will get rewarded in my opinion, up to the level of their astute research. Providing we are talking absolutes and not freak occurences, or luck!...
Don't get me wrong, it is not a guarantee, nor am I saying my dogs are in anyway better. However I am saying the process is more invovled.
Just my humble advice and opinion.
Thanks,
Vit
I understand your concern about getting the dog you want from the advertised "Czech" dogs. I too have the similar problem, when I am doing my research project for my Book and DVD, Interviews with GSD Legends, I found the same hurdle.
When you go to this website and you see a pic, or read a message thread about a dog, or you see a video of them, it is a fraction of the truth.
As Prager has alluded to many times, it is maybe a simple process but not simplistic and certainly not easy! Knowing the dogs, breding what you want is more than putting two great Czech dogs or any others together. And sadly to say it is not so easy and possible to build a breeding program on research done from pics and pedigree!
I have a mentor in Ajay Singh from Patalia kennels and he sees the dogs work! The studs he uses are not always popular, but either he has seen them, or has a good friend with the right experience in the dog world check it out. He has a clear idea of what he wants, and can't and won't rely on surface level information to chose a stud or a pup.
Pics and pedigree reliance on whether the dog is czech or not can only carry us so far. And to be brutally honest, if we as buyers don't educate ourselves with better information than the advertisement of -It's a Czec Dog, so it will jump over the moon and give you what you want.... then it is our fault, and responsability to ensure this does not happen.
"What do we do if we live very far and don't have access to this?" one might ask? Well, it may be tough, but quality and achievement has never been easy to come accross.
I personally just took my bitch almost 8000km for a breeding! It is a choice, and the stud used, represents what I want and was recommended by many that I respect. Then I investigated for myself.
The bitch I used is from strong working lines, I trialed her myself in a country where Schutzhund is now starting and travelled with her on trains, planes and buses. I have had helpers from Belgium, Germany, Holland and the US work her on and off the field. I learnt about her pedigree from cursory research, but I learnt about her from experience. I did not buy her titled, (although I am not condemning this), and she is not perfect in the sport, probably because of me, but I really know her.....
Now if after all of this I have 2 pups for sale and someone would rather go to a advertisement for "Czech Dogs" because that name conjures up the characteristics in the breed that Prager described, than to come to me after I have done my field testing and expierencial learning, then the buyer will get rewarded in my opinion, up to the level of their astute research. Providing we are talking absolutes and not freak occurences, or luck!...
Don't get me wrong, it is not a guarantee, nor am I saying my dogs are in anyway better. However I am saying the process is more invovled.
Just my humble advice and opinion.
Thanks,
Vit
by THayna on 07 November 2010 - 17:11
I've had DDR ,and West German dogs but I think I've just met my first Czech dog and She is definitely different. If I want to do sport I know she will do that but she is Definitely not just a SPORT dog WOW just living with her the last few days makes what Prager is saying actually make sense to me , prior to meeting her I had an inkling of what he meant but the sun is starting to rise on a whole new dog for me......and Hans thanks for sending Freeda and not Fire
by Felloffher on 07 November 2010 - 17:11
Good Post Vithala!
It's about marketing and nostalgia for some breeders I've noticed. More importance is placed on dogs in the pedigree and what they did, instead of the dog that's being bred. Most of the dogs being bred are probably good, but do they understand what they have if they're dogs aren't being worked? It may take longer to get recognized but in the long run you will develop a better dog IMO. Stay the course.
It's about marketing and nostalgia for some breeders I've noticed. More importance is placed on dogs in the pedigree and what they did, instead of the dog that's being bred. Most of the dogs being bred are probably good, but do they understand what they have if they're dogs aren't being worked? It may take longer to get recognized but in the long run you will develop a better dog IMO. Stay the course.
by Prager on 07 November 2010 - 17:11
Yes I know.
Freeda is a handfull. But Fire is a .... well FIRE! :)
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
Freeda is a handfull. But Fire is a .... well FIRE! :)
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by duke1965 on 07 November 2010 - 20:11
vit I respect everyones opinion , for everyones opinions vary , so does mine , and so did those who once thought that the eart was flat
Im going to have to stick my energy in something more important in the near future
Im going to have to stick my energy in something more important in the near future
by Prager on 08 November 2010 - 22:11
You are mentioning nostalgia,...The dogs of particular lines bred in the spirit of Old style Czech dogs are better today then the dogs were back then. Some of many examples is that we have more solid hips, more stable desirable temperament traits. These are expressed in uniformity of these good traits in individual litters. The quality of traits are more stable and we have less problems.
Prager Hans.
http://www.alpinek9.com
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