so how good were the old dogs? - Page 3

Gustav: The breed was more serious in the past as a whole, nerves were strong, and bodies were more lithe and athletic overall

The above encapsulates what differentiates the current from the prior.  Breeding for hips or any such single-focused actions,  have created this difference, IMHO.

We also had a much less litigious society 'back then' too 

We actually took more responsibility for our own actions back
then, and if we got bit? We usually did something to deserve it.

Now, that said, I seem to remember more than one pop in the 
butt cheek, thigh or hand while being part of the 'group' when 
some were practicing for the 'BH'.   Many of the dogs that
were around 'back then' had much more of an 'edge' to them,
and anyone that has been around a couple days has had a
little 'bump' they can remember while being part of the victims,
err, I mean group 

Well, silly ol' me.  There I was thinkin'  MY understanding of the crowd work
exercises in BH were to demonstrate the dog was under proper control, so
it could be walked through a group of strangers without 'popping' at anybody ...

Was a different time Hund,
dogs were worked different,
not all of them were happy friendly
pooches ;)
We held our breath and worked together
to get those type of dogs under control.

Not sure you are succeeding, if/when they do bite someone.  How long
ago are we talking about ?   And do you HAVE to sound quite so much
as if you are approving of it ?   Don't remember Max v.S  ever saying any-
where he expected the GSD to be sharp like that.

People have good points about the society being more litigious and dogs being sharper then as being problematic now....point.....but do you ever notice people that are supporters of today's direction(again not all), seem to omit or gloss over the worried look, tail tucked, noise sensitive, fearful in new places, type that has emerged so often on the scene today. And this isn't the exception any more, these pet creations are justified by their hip scores, their structure, and their need to be treated like little children instead of young adults. In the quest to justify everyone should be able and capable of having a German Shepherd, this byproduct has become quite visible.  Sure, there are people today that are still breeding good strong hardy stock, having no problems with BH's, and still providing the workforce and appropriate families. But what about the increasing sharp-shy dogs that bite indiscriminately today....does their bite hurt less?, these dogs that require babysitter care, can barely be walked without flaming up on everybody or peeing in their place if somebody attempts to pet them? These are also part of the modern GS, and not infrequently, actually some of you own dogs like this and breed to dogs like this for the almighty cosmetic advantage.  Now if what I am writing is the exception, then we shouldn't worry, and this post won't resonate with people because they have seldom if ever seen dogs like this with the new and improved GS. BUT if this does invoke familiarity, and I don't see the same indignation that I see for sharp/strong, or borderline hips, .....then I feel many are either lacking in knowledge or perpetuate the movement to creating pet dogs of this breed....and in many cases not good pets except inside the home.....alas but maybe I dreamed this up and most GS are like mine with my warped principles.

Gustav, I think you and I share the same warped principles ;-)

Having owned....and rehomed....a dog like Gustav describes, I, too, share his principles!

This dog was not sharp-shy, fortunately, but she was very very shy and timid. And a whole bunch of people, including the breeder told me it was MY FAULT, not the dog's.

Lack of socialization, they claimed. And maybe too heavy a hand in the training.  Well, I happen to own a male GSD who spent the first three years of his life chained to his dog house, and HIS temperament is just fine, thank you very much! Any training HE was given (and it wasn't very much) was WAY more heavy-handed than I would dream of using. For instance, as I was putting the dog in my car to take him home, his former 'owner' said, "If he gives you any trouble, just show him a shovel!" 
 
Nope. Not buying that B.S. anymore about the shyness being my fault!.

Gustav, we (meaning 'everyone') need to stop making excuses for these dogs. 

Great post Gustav, I agree with you. My fiance shows dogs, Samoyeds to be exact, and because I am a nice person, I go with her to these shows, despite the fact that I find them extremely boring. This last weekend, at one of these shows, the GSD crowd was complaining that when the PA system came on, it would make the dogs nervous and they would cower and try to run and hide...and how dare they use the PA during a show...
The problem with this breed, and many others, started when breeders started breeding dogs to "fit the handler". As I have said in one of my few posts here, "I dont want the social sport dog that everyone can handle".

It has always been my experience - both nowadays and decades ago -
that the sort of dog who was most likely to take a quick 'unexpected'
nip at someone he was walked past   was/is precisely that sort of
nervous wreck that Gustav describes.  Whether that fear was inbred,
or induced through 'training' and/or day-to-day management.  Lest
we forget, back in "different times, different working methods" was
exactly when heavier-handed, compulsory, punitive training methods
were the order of the day.  Doesn't to my mind excuse undesired
biting incidents of any kind.  In any day and age, if a human handler
knows/knew he had a nerve-bag of a dog liable to nip [for any reason]
that handler needs to be more watchful and have greater control and
reaction abilities than someone who is sure their dog's temperament
is solid.   Does NOT mean said 'solid' dog is just a soppy pussycat of
a pet.