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by J Basler on 28 November 2012 - 13:11
GSD Educational knowledge of >
Lloyd c Brackett
Formula
Dr Carmen Battaglia
Storm Ahead.
Lloyd c Brackett
Formula
Dr Carmen Battaglia
Storm Ahead.by Blitzen on 28 November 2012 - 13:11
Basler......good luck and keep your head down. 
by Prager on 28 November 2012 - 23:11
There are several genes involved in HD. It is polygenic problem with irregular pattern. Thus we probably need more then one gene on each parent side to produce HD. All dogs can produce HD thus all dogs have these genes . So does the wolf. ( Genetically same animal as dog)
I like this illustration which was done by Fred Lanting.
Imagine you have 2 decks of cards . Red cards are genes which cause bad hips. I now flip let say 5 or so cards from the deck of the sire and 5 from the deck of the dam. If you have 1 or more pairs of red cards you will or better yet you may have bad hips in the progeny. The purpose of the breeding is to have the lowest probability of red card pairs on the top. That is achieved by the smallest possible amount of red cards on the top of the deck. Selective breeding is pushing the red cards to the bottom of the deck. You pushed it down the deck in your successful litter. I think it was yours A x B litter. In that litter the cards on the top if there were any did not create a pairs. If you take those pups fro future breeding then you will have pups with bad genes ( red cards ) little lower in the deck. That is good. If you keep doing it long enough then the red cards will be lower and lower towards the bottom of the deck. When you are selecting breeding partners then also look at their littermates. I would not breed a pup from a litter of 10 where 9 are dysplastic and the one I am breeding is OFA excellent. But I would breed a pup with good hips who has 8-9 siblings with good hips and only 1 or maybe 2 dysplastic. If you will do this for 3 generations then you will start to get the red cards down the deck far enough so that it will be very hard to find a pair on the top. 5 generations is better though 6 better yet and so on. It is called LMX system ( Litter Mates X rayed).
Then you must do the same with temperament and all other potential problems and know how to compromise amongst all that. That is since you must not breed just hips but you must breed total dogs.
It is endeavor well worth it but not suitable for pussies.
To answer your question, to eliminate a dog which produced bad hips from your breeding program then you would have to eliminate all dogs because all dogs have ability to produce bad hips if combined properly (or rather improperly) with a specific partner.
The above system is for the breeder who is interested in improving dogs in continuous line .
If you are breeder who is interested just in producing quality dogs for let say S&R or Police and so on then be elated with blessing of litter AxB and breed them reasonably often until they are too old to do so.
You can also be breeder of third type and combine both types of above described breeders.
Good luck.
Hans
I like this illustration which was done by Fred Lanting.
Imagine you have 2 decks of cards . Red cards are genes which cause bad hips. I now flip let say 5 or so cards from the deck of the sire and 5 from the deck of the dam. If you have 1 or more pairs of red cards you will or better yet you may have bad hips in the progeny. The purpose of the breeding is to have the lowest probability of red card pairs on the top. That is achieved by the smallest possible amount of red cards on the top of the deck. Selective breeding is pushing the red cards to the bottom of the deck. You pushed it down the deck in your successful litter. I think it was yours A x B litter. In that litter the cards on the top if there were any did not create a pairs. If you take those pups fro future breeding then you will have pups with bad genes ( red cards ) little lower in the deck. That is good. If you keep doing it long enough then the red cards will be lower and lower towards the bottom of the deck. When you are selecting breeding partners then also look at their littermates. I would not breed a pup from a litter of 10 where 9 are dysplastic and the one I am breeding is OFA excellent. But I would breed a pup with good hips who has 8-9 siblings with good hips and only 1 or maybe 2 dysplastic. If you will do this for 3 generations then you will start to get the red cards down the deck far enough so that it will be very hard to find a pair on the top. 5 generations is better though 6 better yet and so on. It is called LMX system ( Litter Mates X rayed).
Then you must do the same with temperament and all other potential problems and know how to compromise amongst all that. That is since you must not breed just hips but you must breed total dogs.
It is endeavor well worth it but not suitable for pussies.
To answer your question, to eliminate a dog which produced bad hips from your breeding program then you would have to eliminate all dogs because all dogs have ability to produce bad hips if combined properly (or rather improperly) with a specific partner.
The above system is for the breeder who is interested in improving dogs in continuous line .
If you are breeder who is interested just in producing quality dogs for let say S&R or Police and so on then be elated with blessing of litter AxB and breed them reasonably often until they are too old to do so.
You can also be breeder of third type and combine both types of above described breeders.
Good luck.
Hans
by vonissk on 29 November 2012 - 00:11
Hexe and Blitzen excellent posts and Hexe the sentence you underlined about inbeeding and KNOWING the dogs--you know I always say that and add to it not just what Joe Blow down the road said................You guys aleady know would I take the dog out of the program-- No I said that the other day--and to add to what's been said here I would research everydog remotely related to him, the closer the better.............never repeat that breeding and make sure if I used him again to decide that the breeding would bring to the table. JMO
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