Grafental lines - Page 3

DDR-DSH,I agree with you and Im big fan of DDRlines,but you can find good and bad dogs in all those lines(west,east german czech,slovak),good breeder look for good dogs and breed them for good reasons...personally I like mix of 2 worlds(westgermans/belgian lines-east/slovak czech lines)you can get balance dogs Johnsk9 Czech lines are based on east dogs Grafental is not what they used to be,because they were big 25/30 years ago they have the name and any pups they breed they will sell,so they dont care too much,they sell sick pups and people still get them,why? "name" there is good breeders with east lines in States now and I would stick with dogs from here East lines dont go to show or working lines,they are what they are.DDR had the same dogs for show and work

hey,if we all will read Stephanitz book and fallow his steps we will get good shepherds,100 years ago he knew new what will happen to this breed,and Martin brothers,dont want hear nothing about them,what they did to this breed is unbelievable

Silbersee... Thanks for your interesting post! I have heard the stories about the perimeter of the DDR and the dogs. I knew a guy who was stationed in Germany for a few years and he saw the dogs running on their cables. He told me that they were tethered in such a manner that they could almost come together at the end of their runs, but not quite. Still, there was not enough room for a man to pass between them. And then there were other obstacles, as well. Many died trying to cross. Also I had another friend who was also stationed in Germany further back, near Pösen. I think you know where this is, not far from Erfuhrt. And he said that at this time, many East Germans were still trying to cross into freedom. Where he was stationed, they could look across the freshly laid minefield and see the guard-towers on the hills, manned by sharp-shooters. One family was coming across and apparently a narrow strip had been identified or cleared where it was safe to cross. The entire family got across safely but the border guards were close behind them and the old grandfather fell in the minefield. He could not get up and the others could not risk coming back for them. My friend watched as this old man kept striking the ground with his fist, in random places around him, and at first it did not make any sense, but then he hit a mine and was killed. This was his choice, rather than to be captured and imprisoned or executed. He still chose freedom, in his own way. I don't know if anyone is still following this thread, but I don't come around as often as I would like. It comes down to time for me, lately.

Before the East Germans knew better (actually, most still do not), they did breed to Czech dogs with imported "hochzuchtlinie" or SV show lines (Arminius, Wienerau and others). Before the repatriation of the DDR to West Germany, these dogs were coming in through the Czechs, and they were getting them in trade for good working dogs which went to police departments. Basically, the Czechs were getting the "show dogs" that the West Germans did not want. I'm not saying those were terrible dogs, but they could not compete in West Germany, so they were surplus, and trading them for good, saleable working dogs was just good business. I knew of one cop and his partner in Germany, who was an acquisitions guy and trainer of a regional W. German border patrol unit, and they were bringing across some really awesome Czech working dogs, back in the day, probably the mid-80's. The East Germans had to go through a lot of paperwork and permissions even to go to Poland or Czechoslovakia but some did, just to breed to these new imports, to get the wrongly-coveted new blood of these W. German show dogs. Thus, the lines were getting some degree of pollution early on. I don't want to discourage anyone who has some of these lines in their pedigree, because the dogs are still good and predominantly DDR in expression, but my goal, like John's (Ostschutz) was always to preserve as much of the pure old lines as I could. I figured they were worth saving.

I had quite a few good lines to work with back when I had my breeding program going on, but I had to set it aside and let the dogs go. Some did good and others were wasted. I gave them away to whoever I thought might do something to continue the lines, but most people apparently just wanted to get something for nothing and make a little money. As for me, before I let the dogs go I did freeze a lot of semen on the dogs I had then. So, it is still around. Very good bloodlines! One dog in particular produced extreme man-dogs which were early developers. They had very superior athletic ability, unbelieveable in run-outs and targetting, and bit full "to the ears", with no need to readjust their bites, all natural man-dogs!!! His name was Asco vom Rauberhauptmann. You'd have never noticed this dog, but his offspring were incredible! No wonder, because he went to Jeff vom Flämings-Sand, the same line as Birko Wolfshöhle and Lord vom Gleisdreieck. I still have semen on that dog. I also have much from the G and H litter "vom Ritterberg", and some to Don vom Rolandsteich, very close linebred, and more.. I was going to AKC register it all (the semen) and decided in the end not to bother with it.. Screw AKC! They never did anything for my dogs, except to make it possible to mix them into "pet trash" pedigrees, down the road. Also with AKC, too many regulations, mostly arbitrary and senseless, and I am not actively breeding anymore.. Haven't had a litter in seven years! I am now of the mind that money won't touch my dogs. The semen is currently not for sale!

DDR if you ever reconsider on the semen or if you decide to use it for either the Ritterberg or Jeff dogs PLEASE contact Gustav. I personally think that Held was one of the ALL TIME GREATS based on looks, performance, and progeny. Also, I think that Burga should be up there with Umsa, Aska, and Betty. One last point, the west showlines in the 70's could still do very good work to include Canto/Quanto. (Not all but many of them) It has been the constant linebreeding for 30 plus years over and over again for color and gait that has made these lines difficult to get true working stock anymore. JMO