Peanut pups! - Page 3

LMH, yes, maybe a little harsh on my part, I suppose it's possible to be grieving and greedy at the same time. (BUT comparing cranking out a few more pups to donating organs doesn't seem equal either. At least to me.) Science is cold, and must be. No argument there. Here are some other scientific 'options' - 1- Clone your favorite dog and breed him forever 2- collect, collect, collect, and then just put him down and don't waste the time and money on food and care Extreme, VERY EXTREME, I know, my point being that there should be a balance between science and 'taste'. To me, collecting from a dead dog is without 'taste'. I guess people will do whatever they want though. This is far from the only thing without 'taste' in dogs.

LaPorte, it took me awhile to get back to this thread, because I have a life, actually. I do not live only in front of my computer. But yours is the kind of reflexive response one typically sees from "Luddites"...People who are insensibly, illogically revulsed by anything they don't understand. Too bad I didn't know you at the time. I see that I should have asked your opinion, or maybe your permission, first! There was no money consideration involved in what I did. I most likely cannot sell any puppies for anything to speak of, since AKC would not recognize the breeding. And most people who pay a good price for a dog are looking for AKC registrability. I knew that at the time. Like I said, money was not the consideration. Oh, I could have lied about it, and said that the dog was collected live, because this was back before they had the requirements that they do now for photos, DNA, etc. But I don't lie about things like this. I know what I have, and it is comforting to me to know that if I want to, I can go back to this bloodline, which is now only found in the fourth and fifth generation of a few pedigrees which have likely been polluted with other dogs I have no use for. I have semen from a dog which is bred 3-2 on a truly great producer! NOT just a "show dog" but a known producer! And I have the other bloodlines on ice also that are known to click well with it. In short, I'm set! I have semen from no less than ten males, with pedigrees I completely like and know will produce what I want...Bloodlines that it took me approximately 18 years to find. The dogs are all gone now, but I still have access to them. I don't have to run around, paying stud fees and shipping bitches, hoping and praying that I don't get a litter of cryptorchids, bad hips, soft ears or longcoats. AND.. I have not so much work and risk to manage so many dogs! In short, it's the perfect solution! No, I don't expect to make any money on it, but I never did really make anything with dogs. Everything I ever made on it, tended to go to the dogs. And, when you use the "greed" word, you sound to me like one of those animal rights activists who think that all breeders are "evil". They use that "greed" argument, too! Sorry, it doesn't work on me. I'm very happy about it. I miss the dog, certainly, or I would not have tried to save his line. I didn't have to go through a grieving process to know that this was the right thing to do. I had time to grieve afterwards, but it was made a little easier, knowing that some part of this beautiful dog might survive, in spite of a tragedy.

Here is actually what I wanted to do, at one time. I was going to donate really good males to the police, but I would collect on them first, so that I did not lose the bloodline. I made the mistake once to donate a "keeper" pup to a major metro PD on the promise from the handler that I would have access to him to breed, so that I could keep his line. I got one breeding, and that was it. I had sold those pups for very reasonable prices, mainly to other police families who wanted a pup from this dog. After that, I got no more breeding, so I lost the line forever. I would never make that mistake, again. But, I still wanted to do something civic-minded and philanthropic, and I figured that the frozen semen solution was the perfect way to keep my very rare bloodlines and to donate good dogs, essentially "having my cake and eating it" (really, sharing it), as well! It would be a win-win-win solution! I'm happy and proud, because I've got what I need, the dog is out of the kennel and having a life, and the public is benefitting. No, of course I would not just collect like some sort of a frenzied mad wierd science fiend, and then put the dog down like a cast-off piece of trash! What lurid imaginations you ladies have! (Excuse me for noticing, by the way!) Both of you sound a little bit like the animal rights activists, who suspect that everyone else is evil and greedy, and up to no good!

One thing that I have noticed about activists, or those who have been brainwashed and influenced by them and their rhetoric (many in our community), is that no matter what you do, how inventive and novel it is, and how truly beneficial and satisfying it is to all involved, that they are never happy. In fact, the better the idea, the more they bitch. I think it's a power thing.. Self-appointed authority, or the power to make baseless accusations and put someone on the spot, or maybe the wish to be the real "expert", the one with the answers, can never give credit or free license to anyone else with a better idea, even if the intent is to help). I understand all of this now. I didn't, many years ago. But, that's why I gave up the idea of helping police, for example. I knew that it was not appreciated. So, let someone else do it. I suit myself, only. And I really care nothing for the approval of suspicious, depricating, anti-progressive luddites. I am not even a part of that crowd. If someone gets some good idea from me and if they can take it forward and benefit them, let let it be so! I just put it out there.

DDR-- When you say ""Both of you sound a little bit like the animal rights activists, who suspect that everyone else is evil and greedy, and up to no good!"--who are the BOTH?

Oh, and LMH.. Thank you for your sentiments and observations. I know what you are talking about, when you say you cried in private for years after your dogs died. I've been there, many times, myself. I don't always deal with grief and loss so well, either. This time, I did. I got out of my emotions and worked to make this happen. I'm very glad that I did, and it helped me to work through the loss, because I was able to at least save that bloodline. So, I know that if the time is right and I want a litter from this line, I will be able to have a dog very much like the one I lost. They are very unique dogs and it is a very propotent line. I know it very well and would love to have another from it, but this way, I get to choose the time and place. It surely won't be for awhile, probably not until some family issues have been resolved and I've moved to a better place for dogs. The benefits for the breeder in using frozen semen are immense! You can take a break for any reason, for years, and never lose your favorite bloodline. The breeder can potentially have access to a really huge and diverse gene-pool, increased breeding strategies and options, and all at a reduced cost. It's better for the dogs, because without having to compete with so many other kennel-mates, often kept as living genetic containers, they will get more time, socialization and activity. Potentially useful dogs can make their genetic contribution to the tanks and then move on to a useful, full life. Cloning really is not a viable option, by the way. In fact, you can never truly reproduce a dog or cat via cloning. And it's incredibly expensive and risky, questionable ethics due to the birth of genetically incomplete "freaks" which must be euthanized, etc. It will probably have it's uses in the future for reproduction of endangered species and quite likely for commercial purposes such as livestock breeding. But for now, it is a scientific curiousity, and perhaps a dead end.

Yes, I am sorry for that, I saw the three posts and thought for a minute that they were from two different people. My mistake! I appreciate your very sensible comments!

I almost slammed the computer top down, DDR. Glad I didn't--I find you one of the most interesting people to come along in some time.

LaPorte, maybe I was a little bit rough with you, and I apologize for that. I know it must seem very strange, but if you read through some of my reasons for switching over to the use of frozen semen in my own breeding program, you will see that it is very well and thoroughly considered. I put a very large amount of time, money and effort into setting this up. There are ethical implications, I suppose. For example, I am no longer supporting a certain dominant registry, and I am out of the loop with the rest of the breed, now (I consider the lines that I have to be almost a breed unto theirself, anyway, and don't want them mixed in with other pedigrees, for the most part!). But this degree of isolation is not necessary for all breeders. They can use only approved collection centers which are licensed with the dominant registry, jump through all the hoops, and it will cost more due to the high cost of professional services, but there are still many advantages and it may at least be a break-even on cost, in the long run. I forfeited the standard, traditional solutions, because I just got tired of playing the games with the public, tired of dealing with the registration hassles, tired of the politics and the logistics and on and on. In short, I just got tired of trying to be in the dog business. You have to sell a lot of pups to support a colony of dogs, unless you are very well set and situated, which most of us are not. If you have a self-contained breeding program, as I did, it is just nearly impossible to maintain it in any other way. The collection on the deceased dog (does that sound better than "dead dog"?), was a logical extension of what I had already learned. And I am quite sure that he did not mind, at all! As stated, this same procedure is already in widespread use in the preservation of endangered wild species. So, why is it wrong to use it to preserve an endangered family line of domestic canine? I know that not everyone is interested in science, but I will tell you something.. That when you look at millions of living sperm under a low-resolution lens on a dark field, it looks like a galaxy of twinkling stars! And it is no less mysterious, beautiful and thrilling than the contemplation of a star-filled sky on a clear, moonless night. The first time I saw it, I got goosebumps! I knew that I was seeing the other side of infinity, and infinite possibilities.

LMH, you are very kind! Life is interesting, and I am interested in it. I just like to share ideas with people, because you can always learn something from them. I've had the privilege to have worked with and spoken with a LOT of people over the years, in my daily travels. Sorry if I offended you, and I'm glad we got that straightened out. :-) I am a bit rough on activist types. I just can't stand ignoranct rhetoric and anything that even suggests at animal rights rhetoric usually gets a rant from me!