"Hard dog" - Page 3

Hard is such a misused word.  Hard refers to a dogs ability to stay in drive and deal with pain and distraction .  It does not mean a dog is handler aggressive, it does not mean a dog is stubborn. In this video the corrections were increasing her drive, she did not know what to do.  Her nerve is questionable as well as she was constantly wrapping herself around her handler.  She is Hard any dog that can put up with this kind of uh er shall we call it training is hard.  She had every right to turn on her handler for his gross handling. 

How does her wrapping herself around the handler question her nerve? What is that showing?

"Hard refers to a dogs ability to stay in drive and deal with pain and distraction"
 

Well put.  And how would a female be lacking somehow in handling a dog that's obviously better equipped to deal with it's environment while working or training?  No way that I can figure.  (And for those of you who expect some sexist remark from me, put your big girl panties on, and quit being so sensitive on the issue).

Nerve is the actual physical ability to deal with drives.  ( the nervous system)  Many dogs have excellent drive and  a hardness  BUT do not have the nerve base to handle their own drives.  ( unbalanced) The female was starting to become unravelled by her own over the top drive, the unfair correction and the utter lack of any direction ( teaching ) to the dog.  So her body started to react as her brain was shutting down.  A dog will wrap themselves around you, push into you and can start clacking their teeth while working ( not all teeth clacking is nerve based either, it can be a sign of plain ole prey drive).  All indicating that their nerves are fried and they are no longer thinking only reacting. 
OK hopefully that makes some sort of sense.  The written word is not my thing :) 

Looks like mis-directed aggression...she clearly would rather have been delivering the bite on the a-hole holding the lead.

That was a wonderful explanation! Thank you!

Brynjulf, you made the nerves crystal clear for me.  I have seen dogs start to unravel after a correction so i thought nerves are bad.  Then i hear nerves are good, you need them for breeding to high drive animals.  So i was confused but you did a great explanation. Thank you!

And KellyJ that "training" video was hard to watch.  I couldn't understand what the handler wanted so how could the poor dog know what was expected.  Also picking it up at the end and petting it or whatever they were doing just seemed backwards to me.  I don't believe taking a dog off it's feet will encourage confidence.

Wow, what a video! Difficult to assess the dog for hardness based on this video. The training (or what ever you call it) is nerve wrecking at best. The neck of the dog is probably so numb from the cranking and yanking and constant tight lift up, it wont feel any "correction". The dog is completely out of control with its mind focused on the bite only. A dangerous combination IMO. No conscientious trainer would allow this dog to bite until its calmer and under control. The bite has become an outlet for her frustrations and drive. But the best drive in the world is worth nothing if one cant control it.

To me a hard dog is one that has a degree of dominance, can take a harsh correction (justified or not) without getting back at you. Is in control of its drives, and can bring on a good fight with the helper on its own. One that pushes you as much as you have to drive it; and doesnt shy away or shuts down when challenged with a task, pain or environmentally.

Im with you Nadeem6, I have always understood nerves differently.

I have learned alot from this thread. Thanks all!

Somehow somewhere a line got crosses and people started calling spooky or shy dogs "nervy".  However many spooks can handle their drive no problem, they are often stable under gun fire or thunder that type of thing.  A spooky dog can have good nerve.  Seems to be a common misunderstanding :)