Be the solution! - Page 3

I myself found willow valley dogs to be rather good looking dogs, and I assure you, I am not someone that wanted a dog. From you that was turned down. There are two sides to every story and I appreciate your coming and giving your side. I do however have a problem with a breeder that does not replace a defective pup , if not obligated by contract, at least stand behind your dogs,back your dogs and your reputation up. I in no way insinuated anything remotly libelous about you, what I seen on your website is what I wrote, and I do know there is a dead year old shepherd. Your breeding and sales practice is yours, you make your rules and do what pleases "YOU", that is your right and your business. People don't agree with what I do, but, that's "MY" perogative. But I do stand behind my dogs, and don't charge extra to do so

KITKAT...I appreciate your civil reply. I WOULD have done something to help this person out, however, she has NEVER called me, never sent any documentation from a vet, when asked. I can't stand behind a dog when this person is illusive to the reality of the situation. When told I'd take the dog back, the next I hear is from a post on here that the dog was put down? I too understand that not everyone has to like what I do, and I do things MY way, as we all do, but I have helped many people out in many ways that have NOTHING to do with a contract or contract terms. Heck, I have GIVEN pups away in certain situations.  My only point in this situation is that I can't remedy something that I have no documented knowledge of especially when the story changes as the emails come in. Without cooperation from this particular individual, how do you know what is accurate and what is fabricated. I do stand behind my dogs, whether people like what I breed or not, but I won't stand behind someone that isn't being honest. I also know reading her story made it sound pretty bad. I need to revamp my site as it was started in 2006 and while I add to it, some info. is condradictory as I haven't deleted much. I have been working on that the last couple months. I WILL change that instead of my dogs all currently being "CERTIFIFED" with OFA that they are EVALUATED with OFA. until I'd have an official cert. on them at 2. Outside that...I still would welcome a visit, even those who breed a straight high drive working line dog, that don't like what I have, know I do try to do things the right way and my dogs are the most important piece of that for me. I apologize for assuming you were someone else...I have a few people that get real ignorant because of their distaste for me denying them puppies. I wouldnt' expect on a website like this (with high drive, high calibur, working dogs only) that you'd have any interest in what I have. So, again, thanks for the civil reply.

KITKAT, I also wanted to inject, I deleted my last post as I didn't want to come across as disrepectful to you or anyone else. I don't operate that way, but am glad you had a chance to read it. As far as pups I listed in the past on this database, I'll delete them and repost with current info. Priska was brought up and I have her prelim as GOOD and mislead no one, I didn't do another at 2, as my understanding through my vet and research was that after a prelim, hips get better. SO for those questioning that, I will reinvestigate that and just do films at 2 instead of paying for it twice. I don't want to do things that mislead or look BAD as that is definately never my intent. While I have info. and docs in hand, I don't put a lot online. I rather share specific info. in person, on the phone or by sending docs directly to someone.

I think everyone needs to remember that breeder bashing is not allowed and you are only allowed to tell of experiences you have had with breeders. I don't see many of those in this thread and it mostly appears to be a witch hunt of bad websites.

I hope this thread dies a quick death and is replaced by a thread naming good/great breeders. IMO this would be way more constructive.

So I am attaching my now famous "kiss of death" to this thread in hopes it ends right here or at least follows the TOS and is used to relate direct experiences with breeders and not some pin the tail on the donkey website game.

Regards,
GSD

German shepherd dog (admin), with all do respect, There is no intent on my end to do ANY breeder bashing, I have been on that receiving end and DO know the feeling. I also learned a lot from this site "despite" all the constructive (lol) critisim and wonderfully worded suggestions I received over the years here. I myself simply reiterated what was already posted on this forum about this one breeder, what I was told by more than one person, what I myself concluded after viewing their website, AND viewing their advertisement ON THIS forum. Even the kennel itself Stated here that YES, she had some WRONG, and OLD info on her site, AND MORE IMPORTANT, she is now going to fix her information to reflect more accurate info. TO ME,that can only be considered A GOOD THING, right. If the end result is getting correct, and updated TRUTHFUL information about ANY breeder or the DOG, that for one advertises here, and more importantly produces a pretty good number of pups, than I think the purpose of us coming here is working. Knowledge is what we are all here, to gain some, and hopefully, to share

To me, a bad breeder is one who demands a dog back, with big health issues showing up at 4-6 months of age, in order to get a replacement. That, IMHO, is emotional blackmail. When I purchase a dog, I have it written into a contract that if the dog has major health issues, which require big bucks to fix, and I pay to fix those problems, there is NO RETURN of my own pup, who I have bonded with, to get a replacement. If the breeder wont agree to that, I will not purchase a dog from them. I will never sentence a pup of mine to death because it is less than perfect. I would never send a pup back back to be put down. How many breeders would spend $15,000-$20,000 to fix a health problem that can be fixed, if the dog is not showable or workable? How many breeders would put that kind of money into a dog that will be a just a *pet*!

To me a bad breeder is one who will not return phone calls, if a problem crops up.

To me, a bad breeder is one who euthanizes their dogs, once they pass breeding age and are no longer useful to them. I think any breeder that behaves in that manner should immediately be suspended from their breed club.

To me, a bad breeder is one who will not take back their dog if a family has unexpected problems. A good breeder should always care about the dogs they breed, and always take them back or at the very least, assist in rehoming, if unforseen problems come up with the family who has purchased the dog.

To me, a bad breeder is one who makes a person wait two years for an OFA to prove their dog has crippling hip displaysia, saying a preliomb is not enough proof.

To me, a bad breeder is one who takes an old bitch and just keeps on breeding her, even in her ripe old age.

To me, a bad breeder doesnt xray for hips and elbows and breeds upon dogs who have not been either pen hipped, ofa'd or whatever the countries hip/ebow registry is.

A  bad breeder breeds upon health problems to get a winner and doesnt give a crap about the heartbreak they will cause the dogs owner.

A bad breeder will force the owner of a dog with hip/elbow problems to be seen by their own vet, even if it is across the country, and try to make the owner pay for shippingthe dog for xrays, if e request is made for a replacement. Thats reeeeeeeally low! 

Breeders who have litters at all times- titled or not, thats a puppy mill, IMHO.

Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group http://www.mzjf.info/hgate Heaven's Gate  

i would like to say this goes to WILLOW VALLEY GERMAN SHEPHERDS i got my dog from this breeder and she swore up and down all her dogs are OFA and they are NOT, its obviously that my dog had Hip Dyplasia and i mentioned it to her and i have emails to prove everything, i had contacted her after when he was also a puppy when i found out he was infested with worms and he wasn't in great health at all he was skin and bones not to mention he was unfit for sale which i have that letter. I have all the documents to prove that my dogs Hip Dyplasia is and in fact was Congenitial not to mention the reason why i had to put him to sleep is bcs he was bleeding internally see the thing is he had COLLITIES WHICH HAPPENS WHEN THE INTESTINES ARE SO BAD DUE TO POOR NUTRITION WHEN HE WAS JUST A PUP AND NOT TO MENTION HE WAS INFESTED WITH PARASITES, HE HAD DEVOLOOPED A GI BLEED. I had tried everything in my power to help him he woudln't eat or drink i am sry but i am not the type to let my dog that i love dearly suffer i think that is rong to do. He also needed surgery on his hips i have photos and pictures of my dogs hips if anyone would like to see them. 
 
willow valley u said u stand behind ur dogs the thing is just this i have documents to show if u want to see them ur telling everyone on here i never ever contacted u and i have done so ALL THE TIME SINCE HE WAS A PUP and u continuious would blame me i have all the emails to prove everythign on what i said as well as u i will also scan every document and send it to u rightfully soo  u deserve to see it yes, i emailed u and told u everything about what was going on with my dog and u failed to even care u blamed me and I WOULD NEVER EVER HURT MY DOG, I WORK AS A VET TECH AND I WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING TO HARM OR HURT ANY ANIMAL I CAN'T BLEIEVE U WOULD EVEN SAY THIS i am truly upset and hurt my whole family loved our dog, and we were soo attached and now we had lost him and u dont' even care at all i will show u pictures and documents just to prove and back everyhting up that i am saying here.
 
MY DOG CLEARLY HAD THIS IS HIS DIAGNOISES
GI PROBLEMS, COLLITEIS DUE TO WHEN HE WAS A PUP AND POOR NURTION  WHEN HE WAS JUST A PUP EVEN BEFORE I GOT HIM
HIP DYPLASIA, WHICH IS CONGENTIAL ,  WHICH HE SHOWED SIGNS EVEN WHEN HE WAS A PUP.
 
ALSO NOW I HAVE ALL THE VET RECORDS OF WHAT WAS GIVEN TO HIM TO TREAT EVERYTHING NOT TO MENTION WHEN HIS HIP CAME OUT DUE TO HIS DYPLASIA  ALL HIS PAIN MEDS AND DOCUMENTS TO SHOW THAT HE INDEED NEED SURGERY. ALSO I HAVE THE RECORDS STATING HIS DIAGNOSES OF HIS HIPS YEA WHEN I MENTIONED HE HAD HIP LUXATION THAT WAS FROM HIS HIP DYPLAISA HIS HIP CLEARLY CAME OUT OF THE SOCKET AND I DID NOTHING TO HIM AT ALL, MY POOR DOG COULDN'T EVEN WALK HE WAS HOPING SO I TOOK HIM TO THE VET AND THEY DID X-RAYS THEN AND PROVED EVERYTHING AND THEY HAD TO POP IT BACK IT. I HAD TOLD HER THAT HE NEEDED SURGERY AND THAT IT WOULD COST OVER 5,000 THAT WAS AN ESTIMATE BOTH OF HIS HIPS WERE EXTREMELY BAD I AM UPLOADING PHOTOS OF THEM NOW JUST OT SHOW U AND PROVE TO U ALSO I WILL SCAN AND SHOW U ALL THE DOCUMENTS THE UNFIT FOR SALE LETTER AND ALSO THE DIAGNOSES OF HIS HIP DYPLASIA.

I  am serosuly upset u say u were a good breeder and i trusted u i am not bashing or bad mouthing anyone on here but u clearly lied to me i am really hurt and upset and now i have losted my dog due to u not caring all i asked was for help from u and to work things out with u and u came off all half cocked and didn't care. I truly loved my dog my whole family were attached to him, and now that he is no longer here i am so depressed and heartbroken, i trusted u i truly did.

 Yes u have beautiful dogs and when i first talked to u, i thought u were great and the best and i didn't like the fact that dogs were in kennels and u said u don't do that, that is why i trust u, u also told me that ur dogs are ALL OFA CERTIFIED i didn't know what that ment but i trusted u and now look what happend to me i am really heartbroken all i asked wasa to work this out and u didn't evne want to do that u blammed everything on me and i did nothing rong to my dog i would never harm any animal i have i spoiled him and took great care of him he had the best home here with me. When i first got him from the airport and he came out of the crate he was skin and bones and under weight u could clearly see his rib cage and his butt bone which is his tail bone i put him on a speical type of food that my vet told me to put him on and he gained weight. When also he came here he was eating his own poop or tried to i woudln't allow him to do that. I hope everyone understands where i am coming from this is the breeder i got my dog from and i have everything to prove how she treated me, she didn't care about my dog or didn't care about anything that was happening it was all my fault but it wasn't my fault all i asked was to work things out. And she dennied everything and blamed everything on me i truly am heartbroken now i spent alot of money on his vet care and him as well and he was part of our family and now he is gone and she WON'T AND WILL NOT CARE. 

Yes there are 2 sides of every story but i have no reason to lie my dog isn't here any more and mean while she has puppies avaiable and everything like that and i tried to talk to her to let her knwo what was going on with my dog that i clearly got from her and she did nothing and didn't care i am heart broken about all this, this is my side of the story i also have a post also about my dog my very first oen and my whole story behind things. MY STORY HAS NEVER CHANGED AND IS STILL THE SAME I NEVER CALLED U BCS ALSO U DENIED EVERYTHING IN THE EMAIL AND DIDN'T CARE TO TALK TO ME. I even tried to add her on fb and i tried to send her pictures of my dog did she care no she didn't i am truly heartbroken for everythign that has happend and now i am out of a beautiful dog which was my dog that i loved dearly.

HERE IS MY AD AND POST THAT I HAD POSTED ON MY BEHALF OF MY DOG AND IT HAS PHOTOS OF HIS HIPS XRAYS ARE ON THERE I HAVE THE ORGINAL FILMS HERE WITH ME STILL I HAD TO TAKE THESE FROM MY CAMERA PHONE SINCE I CAN'T SCAN THE FILMS BUT U CAN CLEARLY SEE HIS HIPS ON THESE
LOOK ON THIS LINK U WILL FIND HIS HIPS XRAYS ALSO I WILL BE UPLOADING TOMORROW THE DIAGNOSES PAPER WORK AND THE UNFIT FOR SALE LETTER I HAD GOTTEN I TRULY AM HEARTBROKEN AND I REALLY HATE DOIGN THIS, THIS ISN'T ME I DONT' WANT TO FIGHT ANYONE OR I DONT' LIKE DOING THIS BUT I WAS RONGFULLY TREATED AND MY POOR DOG DIDN'T DISERVE THIS EITHER  
 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/bulletins.read?mnr=631353&pagen=2 

KittKatt   i agree with u 100 percently we all come here for knowlege and GSD adminstartion no one is bashing anyone we are only letting this breeder know on certain things that she had done, i also myself am not bashing her i am being honest and telling the truth on my dogs behalf as well as mine, i had lost my dog due to certain things that went on that she was aware of and didn't care, i am heartbroken and i am trying to prove that it was not indeed my fault at all i am only showing her the truth on things and telling her exactly things that had happend. I myself as well as other ppl should know things like this and how it happend i am a very very honest person and rightfully so i tell the truth and nothing but the truth, i just want her to know what she did and what happend exactly so we can talk about things and hopefully work things out, and talk i am extremley heartbroken for everything that has happend. I am not and never will bash someone she does have beautiful dogs  and they aer gorgeous dont' get me rong that is why i feel in love with her dogs and wanted one the begin with and i am sure she is a good breeder and didn't know what happend but the thing is i have tried to make serveral attempts to tell her what happend and she didn't care so i dont' know what to do now i am only showing her and letting her know what happend

Look KITKAT, I said nothing about me doing anything wrong in my posts, and I will change ONE word on my site for people to inturpret differently. Any incorrect info. wouldn't have been animal related, for Pete's sake, one change is that I don't feed Evo dry food any longer so had to put in Earthborn...if that is really that significant that you need to continue to talk about this...so be it. There was NOTHING constructive that was remotely funny about what you said to me and it was all misinformation. Perhaps before you or anyone else speaks about what they do NOT know, they should go to the source if it's that worthy to talk about. My dogs are all submitted to OFA for evaluation, ALL of them, rather it's on a prelim and/or an official report, with papers in hand. I'm really saddened by the fact that with your claim in knowing how it feels, from criticisms you've recieved over the years, and in all your dealings with people, you don't steer toward treating others with respect. So much for this thread dying by KISS OF DEATH (ADMIN)...

This is the final post from me...find someone else to chat about. Wouldn't you find it more productive to do as Administror directed? Talk about the people you believe are good breeders? I, too, have a LONG list of bad breeders, yet choose not to post them here or talk about them, knowing the legal remifications that can and will come from engaging in such nonsense.

Jersey Girl...YOU needed to contact ME by PHONE. How many times do I need to sterss this AND send me all DOCUMENTATION from the vet! You are listing problems you have NEVER mentioned prior to this moment, in all the emails you have sent me, and I have them ALL! Instead of getting on a site and going on an emotional tangent, if you do as asked, you wouldn't be in this situation! Your last email to me was asking what you should do with a dog that had a dislocation that was painful and your vet popped it back into place. I also told you I really hoped you did NOT put the dog down...and still you DIDN'T call me. I haven't talked to you on the phone once since you got this puppy. The parents of your puppy have never had another litter together and won't, they were from OTHER BREEDERS (yes supposidly reputable breeders, that I will not post names of on here to start a war of my own!) and they were placed in pet homes. So whatever trash you put out there that stimulated KITKAT and whoever else to start the slander contest, believing I continue to breed dogs with known issues...is blatently false! Oh I know, someone will draw the shotgun on me now...NO, that is not an admission of anything...those pups, to my knowledge had/have no problems, I was not pleased personally, with the litter, which is why those dogs were placed. I 'm not going to comment on anything else you wrote and until you would have sent me vet documented proof, I don't believe anything you throw out there. You paint a pretty sad story and it keeps growing in content as the days go by, but up until you let me know your dog had a" DISLOCATION that the vet popped back into place", in June, you expressed NO PROBLEMS or ISSUES of ANY kind with this dog, EVER...only that you were very happy with him, how great he was, how well he was doing and that you wanted papers after all. If you have anything else to say to me or about this, be an adult and call me! I'd also strongly suggest you stop your rant or I'll pursue this differently.

Lastly, perhaps a list of people you should never place pups with should be started! This story continues to evolve into something it never was. NO breeder can stand behind something that isn't true, or that you were never aware of, and until validation is presented to THAT BREEDER (me or anyone else) it's just talk. Anyone with an issue, (like the guy I took back a pup from, last month, that at ended up having more drive then they wanted...and I gave him a different pup) tend to CALL me to discuss any kind of resolution. We don't always pick the best homes or best people for our pups, unfortunately, even with the best of efforts. However, All the people that you make very happy
far outway the people you regret placing a pup with in the first place.