Our struggle with Degenerative Myelopathy - Page 3

This case, like so many "DM" cases, could be one of several other diseases that get lumped in and diagnosed as DM and everyone then freaks out about DM like it's sweeping the nation all of a sudden or something. DM is a terrible disease, and part of that is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to diagnose without a necropsy. I hate that "everything" is now DM. A GSD has a toenail shorter than the other and now it has DM.  I feel for the thousands of dogs who are misdiagnosed with DM when they really have something treatable and the people who are told they have no hope. 

My bet on the OP's dog is CES, spondylosis, etc. All not fun, either, but fitting the bill much better than DM. I still think the protocol is wise to consider with any dog showing neurological or spinal issues, but if it were my dog, rather than accept a possibly false diagnosis, I'd have done an MRI, not a myelogram, and known definitively whether I was dealing with CES (surgically treatable), advanced spondylosis, or DM.

Andy, I'm sorry for your loss of Golo. 

My bet on the OP's dog is CES, spondylosis, etc.

Well, back in Feb 2010, I wished someone to give us a more curable diagnosis like the mentioned one. We went through many options with several vets. To be honest, we hoped to get something more promising but they all ruled out everything except DM.

Spondylosis.
It is easily identifiable via X-Rays. They could not find any signs in our case.

CES
The common symptoms are: pain in the back, difficulties in posturing to defecate, difficulties in climbing up stairs etc. Golo had nothing like that. Also, he never had pain in the back, though was quite sensitive to pain.

Again, no other DM-like diseases really fitted his profile.

Without an MRI, you don't know if your dog had CES. Without a necropsy, you don't know he had DM. 

I know it may not matter to YOU, but to other people, knowing what is and what isn't DM is hugely important from a breeding selection standpoint, so to me, knowing exactly what is affecting my dog would be crucial, as many would look at your dog and say "oh, so-and-so produced/carried DM- their offspring, Golo, had it" when really, we don't know if Golo had bad arthritis, spondylosis, CES, DM, etc. etc. If you don't truly know but think you know, you stop looking, which can be dangerous to the breed as a whole, which is why you're getting some resistance here. Hope you're not overly offended by it, but it is what it is. Your description parallels those other spinal afflictions, not DM. None of us will ever know if we were right or wrong. 

Don't be silly Andy, I have no reason to pretend anything. I"m not even attacking you. I'm just not going along with your perceptions. Even your first sentence is misleading, "...my dog was diagnosed with DM." 

Whatever, Andy, people will believe what they want, even you.

My question is very simple: what have you done to recover your dog? Had you slept a few hours a day like me and my wife giving him pills every four hours? Had you spent a few hours a day forcing your dog to walk when he could not get up? Had you spent thousands of $$ for your dog to help him struggling with DM? One set of EACA and NAC here in Australia costs $650. It lasts for about 1.5 months. I am not talking about all other costs.

Obviously, euthanasia is simple, cheap and highly respected solution. Who can say something? Wasn't it incurable DM?

Then, when you see that someone managed to do something that most can't do, you are ready to do everything to pretend that it is not the case.... Of course the OP is mixing the facts.... of course the OP's dog had a different diagnosis.... of course it is impossible to slow down DM etc etc. 

Everyone should know that there are other options that could be successful.

Another question, why do all of you simply deny the experience of Dr Clemmons? Again, is it because he has hundreds of proven clinical studies where DM was slowed down for years while you followed a "proven" advise of your vet? Perhaps, he also mixes the facts up being unable to identify DM, does he?

The bottom line: all of you who cannot accept our positive experience yet don't even want to hear about Dr Clemmons results simply have not done enough for your dogs. IMO

I think now I will setup a dedicated website explaining our experience in greater details with all the references. People should know the truth. I know it will help thousands of dogs and their loving owners.

Andy, First I want to tell you how sorry I am that you have lost your beloved Golo. I also applaud you for trying to do everything possible for him while he was still with you. Having said that, I must agree with others here who are questioning whether or not he actually had DM. DM typically does not start as you have described and Dr. Clemmons protocol typically does not produce the recovery you experienced with Golo. My 7 year old GSD, Shelby, was diagnosed with DM 14 months ago. She had xrays, a thorough exam and the DM dna test, which showed she was affected/at risk. I first noticed the wear of the nails on her left hind foot in October 2010 and it has slowly progressed ever since then and she will soon need a cart. She has been on Dr. Clemmons protocol since she was diagnosed. She has also had regular PT, daily massages, acupuncture, laser therapy and stem cell therapy. The vet said her progression has been slower than most she has seen, but she has still steadily declined. Aside from the fact her progression has been slower than most, she is very typical of a dog with DM. The onset of DM is not sudden as with your dog. Dogs don't have nail wear and moderate instability and then drop down, unable to walk. They also don't bounce back just because of some medications or supplements. Really, it doesn't matter whether Golo had DM or not. The important thing is he was well loved and cared for until the very end. I do think that professing that doing what you did for Golo will work for DM dogs is definitely giving false hope. If in fact he did have DM your story is one in a million.

starchar, I am sorry to hear about Shelby. It is an unbearable pain to see them like that. Dr Clemmons methods don't help 100% of DM dogs. According to their own statements:

"Although it does not work in all cases, this combined treatment has been up to 80% effective in patients diagnosed at the University of Florida. The chances of successful treatment are improved if the therapy is begun early in the course of degenerative myelopathy rather than later. A response to the drugs should be evident within the first 7 to 10 days. There are no other medications that Clemmons has found to provide any real benefits in the long-term treatment of degenerative myelopathy.

 .....n-acetyl-cysteine, and aminocaproic acid (EACA), which have shown an improvement or stabilization of the condition in more than 50% of the animals with degenerative myelopathy."

Perhaps we had a lucky ticket... I don't know. Anyway, two vets ruled out all other diseases with similar symptoms. We were checking and studying any better options - spinal stroke, injuries, disk compression, tick paralysis and so on. Nothing really matched except DM.

Definitely, Golo was not the only dog to whom Dr Clemmons' system helped a lot, though, as I mentioned, he has never recovered 100%. So, it is not a false hope.

AndyG

So, I hope Starrchar's post helps you to recognise that people other than yourself do actually do try everything possible for their DM dogs.

Nobody has been particularly offensive to you, the question has merely been whether your dog actually had DM, and I still think it unlikely from your description that he did. I truly wish, as I am sure many others do that your post could be the answer to our prayers and people could do what you said and get the results you got with Golo, but sadly I know it won't happen, because I know of people, like Char, and others who have tried everything you did and more without the remarkable turnaround you describe.

To have a DM dog which was down to taking long walks again in a couple of months is, in anyones book effectively reversing DM albeit temporarily. Also the signs of DM prior to a dog going down simply cannot be 'missed', they progress to very obvious signs which go far beyond toe dragging or knuckling. Also I think it is quite unusual to have to express the bladder with DM. Mostly the dog may become incontinent.

As you were clearly well informed about Dr Clemmons studies (as am I and many others here) and you used the protocol, did you get the DM flash test done on Golo, or even the OFA DM test done to determine whether he tested as affected with DM ?

You have said that we are resistant to the idea that your dog had DM, but aren't you also resistant to the idea that it is a possibility yourself? People here are not questioning it because they feel inferior, or that they didn't do enough or have any ulterior motive, or any of the other unpleasant reasons you came up with. It is because it really doesn't fit, and if your dog didn't have DM your recipe for it will not help others whose dogs DO have DM. Dr Clemmons protocol is well known. It is one of the things tried by people with DM dogs mainly because there is nothing else out there to try. It may help but has never yet in my experience proved to make a dramatic difference. If it did I am sure it would be widely reported in the media, and would soon be patented and cost quite a lot of money! In fact, in your original post I believe that you said your dog had improved before you started the protocol.

Lucky ticket - maybe. More likely your dog had something other than DM.

Abby Normal,

Let's forget about my case with Golo, because whatever I tell you, you will find hundreds of excuses to justify your own negative experience.

What about thousands of clinical results of Dr Clemmons, clearly proving that DM can be slowed down in many cases? Also his researches show that many dogs have significant improvments. Would you say it is a scam or existing in my imagination only?

Yes, I am familiar with Dr Clemmons researches as contacted him immediately after it happened. He helped thousands of people and their dogs yet, believe me, knows about DM a bit more than you or me. But who are you to state that DM cannot slow down and dogs cannot get any improvements? Do you have your own lab or run your own research? BTW, Golo had the first significant improvement in 7-8 days - exactly according to Dr Clemmons observations.

Let's consider a completely different aspect. We all know that DM could be difficult to recognize, which leads to hundreds (or thousands?) of false positives of different and not so devastating diseases. So, following your ill standpoint that nothing-can-be-done whatever you do, hundreds of dogs wrongly diagnosed with DM should be euthanized even without trying. Are you OK with that?

Should I had followed you views, we would have supposed to euthanize Golo in 2010 as all vets strongly recommended.

I stop on that and will not be replying to you comments, because it is pointless to discuss  this with people who are denying clear evidences showing that DM can be slowed down.

If someone has his/her dog diagnosed with DM yet doesn't even want to give a try, that person doesn't deserve a so wonderful creature as GSD. Do you agree?

Andy - my only *issues* are

1. Your assertion the dog HAD DM when the complete battery of diagnostics was not done and confirmation was not attained upon death.
2. Your approach could cause someone, particularly someone who may not have the finances to take their dog through these tests, to put their dog through therapies that could further injure a damaged spinal cord-where crate rest may be the preferable approach.

Actually I think many if not most old dogs have weakness in the rear if they get as old as your dog was, and our breed is set up for back issues with a longer back than most.

It does not seem adequate "rule out" testing was done, but that is based on what veterinary specialists over here have told me.  And right now, DM is a "rule out" diagnosis meaning it could still be something else.