Mega Esophagus And Breeders - Page 3

Mary, regarding your comment on DM, did you really mean to indicate that you would breed a known DM carrier? I have a hard time understanding your reasoning if this is true.

I own a dog, Grace von Lenox, with allergies, DM (hit her at 9 years old; can't walk without a wheelchair) and Pannus (hit her at 5 years old; can't see without steriod injections to her eyes and eye drops 2 times per day.). Her pedigree: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=410124 . Her father was West German workingline and her mother USA AKC obedience type dog, not AKC showline. Was bred by a woman named Lisa M. in Wisconsin, IL USA on an Arabian Horse Farm. Oh, but she, Grace, has OFA "excellent" hips and normal elbows. Not that that matters when you can't see or walk. She will need to be euthanized before her time. 

I have loved, trained, owned and have had to ultimately euthanize a gorgeous young dog at the age of 3 years old because he had Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency (EPI; dog starves to death and looses their mind due to chronic malnutrition; 1:5 don't respond to treatment; Genetic Disease). He was a German workingline import to the USA, Cliff von der Baumreihe BH (HOT), he's on this database to: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=394829 . Born and Bred in Germany. 

I have my 3rd GSD now, environmental allergies (on medication), that's it so far, otherwise, a healthy guy. Not to be bred. I can't worry about his fate right now... hopefully, allergies and arthritis will be his only battles. Time will tell...

To breed a dog that is a known carrier of DM is immoral. To breed a known carrier of EPI is immoral. Pannus, immoral. Mega-E, immoral. Do you have any idea what this does to the people who LOVE THESE DOGS that they have to kill to sacrifice the dog from suffering any more? 20% is a good enough risk to you? I must be misunderstanding your post, I must be...

Margaret

 

Rik, I think a lot would depend on if mega e requires 2 genes- one from each. I have a hard time believing it is a dominant trait as the animal that produced/sired mega e would do so with every litter created. But, I respect and appreciate your input and you make very thoughtful points. Margaret, I would also have no problem breeding a DM carrier. As long as all breeding dogs are tested and two carrier or a carrier and at risk dogs are never bred together, not one SINGLE puppy would ever be created that would develop DM... Sara

Yet, Sara, those Carrier Puppies you produced will be bred and you continued the cycle anyway. Or did you have all the Carrier Pups spayed and neutered before you sold them? It stops or continues with you and other breeders around the world. So very sad that it can't be as easily seen by those who sell/breed the pups/dogs and don't keep them "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health" like I do.  :'(

Where do we go from here...? Sick breed forever?

Margaret

P.S. Rik, thanks for trying!

Margaret, Actually my bitch is DM normal but I would have no problem breeding her to a DM carrier. I truly appreciate your stance and I think we are on the exact same page!! However, carriers will NEVER produce a puppy that could grow up to have DM if bred to an animal that is clear. Now that we have testing, there should never be another case of DM ever again. I believe your argument (and mine as well) would really be directed at breeders who DO NOT test their breeding dogs. This is completely and TOTALLY unacceptable. But, I do not believe carriers should be removed from gene pool when if bred correctly they will never produce a puppy with DM. I do believe "At Risk" dogs should NEVER be bred under any circumstances. These dogs test positive for having the probability of developing DM themselves. Furthermore, do any of us know how many dogs are DM carriers? It could be 75% of the gene pool. We just do not know. I hope I have made my stance much clearer now. Thank you for the discussion, Sara

P.s- I am on my phone and for some reason it will not let me make spaces between paragraphs. My apologies.....

Margaret, Just reread my post and not sure I made it clear that a puppy that acquires DM MUST have parents that are both carriers or "at risk- term for dogs that test DM positive meaning they have high probability of getting DM. A carrier bred to a normal will NEVER produce a DM puppy. All breeding dogs that descend from carriers should be tested before bred and bred accordingly. An At Risk dog should never be bred. A dog that has not been tested for DM should never be bred either. Sara

No, Sara, we are not on the exact same page. Yes, you did make yourself clear. I understand what you are writing. You want to by-pass the genetic disease, I want to eliminate it! 

Carriers when not bred to carriers do not produce a puppy with the disease. BUT, THEY CONTINUE TO CARRY THE DISEASE IN THEIR GENETIC MAKE-UP! Therefore, the disease survives with the carriers and they WILL BE BRED to another carrier in the future.

There is no world wide law to protect the GSD. There is no moral law to protect the GSD.

Sara, I believe you intend to do right by the GSD but, it is not enough. Maybe 90% of the breed are carriers, I have no idea? I DO KNOW that the GSD is NOT known for its health! That's one thing that is known!

As long as there are carriers the disease won. This is not survival of the fittest. Unfortuantely, the GSD is a man-made-designer-dog (it's a "purebreed") that has only been around for little more than 100 years! All the early mother-son, father-daughter, sister-brother inbreeding might have made certain of the GSD's future. A genetically inbred mutant of a sick dog like the Arabian Horse who's face is so contorted they can't breathe, have club feet, cushings disease, diabetes, etc... and die earlier than other horses/dogs of the like?

We made the GSD what it is today. Can't we undo the harm by backtracking and NOT continueing to breed the genetically sick dogs, period?

If only 10% of the breed are genetically healthy the GSD as a breed is already dead. If so, I should just give up the idea, the dream, that the GSD could ever be a healthy dog and move on. Please convince me otherwise.

Margaret

Sara, thank you for the discussion also. I hope that you do not breed your genetically healthy-bitch to a genetically sick carrier-stud. Then the breed might have a chance of survivng.
Margaret

Sara, agreed, testing is important... but can't we abolish the disease? Margaret

Margaret,

Unfortunately, at this point, I do not think we can eliminate the disease.....only manage it. 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts......

Sara