North American Sieger Show 2011 Male Protection videos - Page 3

It does irk me that all the time these dogs are talked up as being the best of the best and how they can hold their own against working line dogs....then on the ONE day when they just need to do a watered down, abbreviated test the percentage of dogs that live up to that claim is so small, it really does sound like excuses, excuses....the helpers were unfair, the show is stressful, the dog has a new owner.... well OK but these are all things that are the NORM for any show of this size and caliber so you'd think the best of the best dogs and hanlders come prepared.  I mean, I had one person who trained and showed a VA1 dog say that they don't train the dogs because they are so expensive and the owners don't want them to break a nail doing actual work and training, like that is below dogs that are supposed to set the standards for this WORKING breed.  Come on.

Keith,

 We can all make excuses for our dogs, but at the end of the day they are judged on their performance at an given event. Regardless of a dogs role it is up to a handler to prepare a dog for it's job. Sport or street dogs need to be worked in different locations or fields on different helpers/decoys in preparation. I agree traveling will place some stress on a dog, but IMO dogs with strong character and drive show up when it's time to work regardless of the circumstances. Handlers competing in Sch., Ring and PSA travel around North America to compete and I have never heard anyone excuse their dogs performance because of travel. If a dog can't handle it, is it really the type of dog we should breed? 

If your dogs are so much better, why aren't you showing them?  And please, don't blow smoke up our collective asses about how the judges won't place your dog; Randy hung it out there and earned a very respectable V2 for Waiko.

I'm not familiar with Waiko, do you have a link? I would imagine working lines aren't shown at breed surveys for the same reasons showlines for the most part aren't being evaluated in Sch. events along side working dogs.  IMO the SV breed standard is promoting the wrong type of dog. Did you ever consider that these breed surveys aren't worth a pound of salt to those breeding working dogs? If you see it as an excuse that's fine, but there are far better ways to judge a dog's character and breeding suitability.

 

I have a 8 month old GS puppy that has more drive intensity and better grips than all of those dogs. He gives this performance everytime I work him. He is wonderfully social, everyone loves to play with him, so to give me these weak reasons why 2 to 8 year old Sch 3 dogs appear the way they do is the true BS. You bullshit the baker you get a bun, you bullshit me you get none.
We should should only accept strength in character and structure in a conformation show of working dogs. The performances do NOT show character suitable for a working dog even if the structure is there. You can spin it any way you want, but in the gut MOST people know this is true!

I have waded through the nonsense....I have worked and am working a few showline dogs....it was definitely NOT the training....the dogs lack the courage to even respond....training would only show control....I am working a 2 yr old showline male that would have put ALL those dogs to shame...period. Those videos are not representative of the excellent show dogs I've worked...but they do represent what the judges are putting up as winners. UGH!

 Judron again has hit the nail on the head. Don,t blame the dog the dog is only the product of the producer. Don.t lay all the blame on the breeder they are only breeding what they realize is going to be judged and win. The blame falls squarely on the S.V. and the judges who promote and place the dogs as shown. The S.V. is the keeper of the breed as the Judges are the enforcer of the standard.

 I haven't seen Judrons dogs but i,m sure they will fit the bill nicley,I have seen T Floyd campaign some very nice show line dogs that appeared to have the qualities on the field that are needed for the breed. You can,t judge the character of a dog without a test that truly is a benchmark for a breed survey.

 I congradualte the enties of the NASS show because there is alot of work put into the dogs to get to this point.    

here's something else....

I am also working a 3 yr old showline female that just got back from Germany. She was sent there to be titled....EXCELLENT pedigree I'm told....came back a Sch1....won't bite a steak....breeder wants her to compete at a show here to get her survey so they can breed her..I'm having enough problems getting the dog to let me touch her...but she won't breed to the male in the club because he's a tad too big...this male is a monster...something I would thing would help improve the breed...because the bitch she wants to breed WON'T...oh well....

Quote:

"came back a Sch1....won't bite a steak "

 That says it all!.

Still wondering how that phase is judged..... Pass - Fail or a scoring system?????

Pass/fail.

Thank you