Which school of thought are you in??? - Page 3

Niesia, very pretty dog in your avatar.  I too like a strong bitch, seems like I notice a lot of people ae just concerned with the sire, well I could be wrong but you could take an amazing sire and breed it to a so so bitch and well you'll get so so pups, DNA is a 50/50 split I always wondered why the working bitches get overlooked as often as they do.

By producing with parents that are themselves linebred, and therefore more homozygous for the phenotypes they carry, even if the breeding is an outcross, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,m you are improving the genotype results in an overall more consistent fashion, as illustrated in the bellcurved concept diagram below.




 

 I remember several german breeders saying that the
Female is the 70% of the inherited load on the breedings and that people tend to overlook the RIGHTEOUSNESS of the DAM>>>lol


YR

That's a pretty arbitrary number, there needs to be specific reason or regard for either parent to be prepotent to a greater or lesser degree.  If either parent is linebred while the other is not, the influence could be greatly slanted to either side.  In the breeding of my Tiekerhook boy, you can see that the female lines are more concentrated, the male lines where the infusion of new blood is introduced.  Note that most of the females are linebred on so-and-so producer, while all of the males (except Max and Rambo) aren't linebred at all.  So when the male is an outross and the female is linebred, that's maybe a nice way to illustrate how females could have a 2 to 1 influence (66%) over the litter.





This diagram below is a quick and dirty sight of maternal and paternal influence regarding a pedigree, where each gender shows a "wedge" of influence.  You have your direct sire line, which runs along the top of the pedigree back through the generations, while the flanking portion of the wedge is carried on the damside.  The direct dam line being the opposite, bottom edge, and it's flanking members on the sire side of the pedigree.  Now, imagine each producer in this regard has a wedge of influence of it's own, in less significant and fractally smaller regard as the generations are traced back.



In some regards, a producer of the fourth generation can carry more weighted influence than a producer of the third generation.  That's a quick and dirty illustration, as I said, and depends on what regard you're attempting to ascertain influence.  In the illustration below, for example, you can see the transference of X-factored traits, and how a specific producer of the fourth generation (p20) can be 50% likely to have contributed it's X chromosome to the (female) dog of the pedigree, and from a pedigree portion deemed generally less significant.

Transference of X-linked traits

Those charts are GREAT!! I have to ask a couple questions.  1.  people will make reference to the dog in the 4th slot on the pedigree has no bearing on the current dog.  I could be wrong but that seems to be an absurd comment, his genes made up the dog in the 3rd slot etc, and while you may not be getting his characteristics as strong as if he was in the 1st or 2nd slot they will still be there and a chance that it will come out in a pup.  I'm by no means saying one "great" dog in slot 4 gives you a great dog but you can't discount those genes can you?  2.  I'm a type A personality when I start on a subject I want to know everything I possibly can on it (drives ppl crazy) I have a shelf full of books but haven't found any on this subject are there any you recommend?. 3. Daryl your charts are great what do you do for a living? I also checked out your website, Your dogs are very nice indeed! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge I tell ppl constantly the proof is in the dog you put out. Generally I'm talking about training but when I saw your guys on your website that was the first thought that came to mind.

how far back would you consider it to be linebreeding and how far back for inbreeding.?

That confused me too when I was reading Anne, I don't get why there are 2 terms, linebreeding is inbreeding.

was just curious  have heard some say 3-3  is fine and others say no above 5-5 so what is the general feeling how far back is considered ok

Buyers for prospective competition dogs are primarily bent on importing from europe.  Many buyers learn hard lessons, some get lucky, and some plan reasonably well enough to get what they desired.  The lure of the "european import" label is tough to compete with, defeats the purpose of what I wished to breed for.  The kind of dog I desire to produce NEEDS skilled and competitive handlers.

If I wanted to succeed financially as a breeder, I'd relocate to an area where I could regularly compete with a more intense purposed bloodline, and include in my program a line of more mild mannered impressive looking dogs for the wannabe fanciers (as the bread & butter of the business).  That implies a lot more than I can handle right now.  I'm a single guy with a six day work week living hundreds of miles away from it all.  And besides, I generally don't like people.  So, I'm basically just breeding and developing what I want for myself.

1.  I was referring to regards of maternal/paternal influence direct and flanking lines (from the outer edges) as opposed to the inner white-colored positions of the third generation.  But yes, even a producer behind said dog of any 3rd generation could be less significant whereas recessive genes are concerned from multiple carriers in the fourth.

2.  I'd have to recommend any book authored by me ;-)  These aren't books, but some favorte topic keywords include; evo-devo, epigenetics, behavioral genetics, neuroplasticity

3.  My breeding program is very young, with lots of forks in the road, and my methods naturally tend to go against the grain of the way some proclaim the way things ought to be.  I don't feel the need to prove much, I 'm on the path I've chosen for my sake, not anyone else's.

was just curious  have heard some say 3-3  is fine and others say no above 5-5 so what is the general feeling how far back is considered ok

 

There's no general answer for such a general question.  In regards to what genes, positioned where on what pedigree?  Learn what the genes do, how they're transferred, because there's no rule of thumb, and every breeding brings into it unique considerations.