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by Vixen on 01 August 2011 - 21:08
Steve, I do not even need to read further than your first sentence, - I did not say "Hold down" - how would that teach a puppy to remain laying down????? I might as well sit on him/her - that is actually RESTRAINT, and a puppy would obviously then not be able to get up, and certainly would not learn for himself that he is required to remain down!
Suggesting that I do not have a clue in how to handle dogs - well I must have been dreaming about the dogs and people I meet, teach and train.
Steve, go to bed ..... don't forget to take your shoes off - feet should be safe in bed.
Vixen
Suggesting that I do not have a clue in how to handle dogs - well I must have been dreaming about the dogs and people I meet, teach and train.
Steve, go to bed ..... don't forget to take your shoes off - feet should be safe in bed.
Vixen
by troublelinx on 01 August 2011 - 23:08
There is no way this person could possibly be serious. And the person is a breeder to boot?
or she is just dumb as hell.
or she is just dumb as hell.
by Chaz Reinhold on 02 August 2011 - 03:08
This is the type of post that keeps me coming back. I learn new things everyday. Just yesterday, I didn't know Pups bite.
Steve, I have expensive shoes. No way in hell is my pup gonna chew a $30 pair of Chuck Taylor's.Will flip-flops work?
OP, I don't use a newspaper anymore. That's so 90's. I use my laptop.
by zmelli on 02 August 2011 - 04:08
I had the same problem with a Pup in the past. I just suited up and held her down and let her know I was Boss. She quit biting at around 6 Months.
by steve1 on 02 August 2011 - 05:08
Sorry to the OP but you are not up to handling a dog of this breed and if you have any sense at all you will get a dog which is of a more amiable nature.
Vixen All i can say is HELP to the people you train for as i said your one bit about FORCING or KEEPING a 10 WEEK old Puppy in a down postilion for ANY length of time says just how much you know about training dogs NIL in my book and most on here who have answered think the same.
I find that very disturbing indeed that you would treat a Puppy of that age in that manner. Do you periodically have a demonstration Puppy for your clients i would not put it past you the way you talk, and again i said THE VOICE and the way you HOLD yourself or PRESENT yourself to the DOG those two things alone will do the job,
Because you do not understand what it means when i say it shows your lack of knowledge with dogs it is a fact well it is over here that those two things make the difference between you being the boss or the Dog being boss of you and i am not going to spell it out again very important indeed,
I have not used those tactics you employ in training any dog whether it be in Sport, Sheep Herding or teaching Dogs to be Guide dogs for the Blind Folk, Now i am no Master dog trainer but i am not a dummy either, and i have the talents of some of the best trainers in the Dog world to call on or put me right should i go wrong and even the very best make mistakes no matter how long they have trained dogs and that was said to be by a 5 times world champion and they would certainly put you in your place very quickly indeed if they saw you treating a 10 week old puppy in such a manner, Now i have said all i am going to with you all the respect i had for you in the past went with your posting, to me you are a Yank and Crank trainer and you can keep your methods to yourself, My last reply to you on this subject you are not worth it any more
Steve1
Chaz
i do not carry a newpaper with me outdoors and my dogs live outdoors, If a Puppy goes to jump on me and i do not want it i say NO' in that voice and at the same time i bring my knee up so the Pup bumps into the knee and falls off they do not like it and a few times of this will stop them jumping on you, the knee bought up fast or with any force into the dog it is a just a barrier for the dog to knock against before it gets to you and send me over a pair of your expensive shoes mine come from the discount store
Vixen All i can say is HELP to the people you train for as i said your one bit about FORCING or KEEPING a 10 WEEK old Puppy in a down postilion for ANY length of time says just how much you know about training dogs NIL in my book and most on here who have answered think the same.
I find that very disturbing indeed that you would treat a Puppy of that age in that manner. Do you periodically have a demonstration Puppy for your clients i would not put it past you the way you talk, and again i said THE VOICE and the way you HOLD yourself or PRESENT yourself to the DOG those two things alone will do the job,
Because you do not understand what it means when i say it shows your lack of knowledge with dogs it is a fact well it is over here that those two things make the difference between you being the boss or the Dog being boss of you and i am not going to spell it out again very important indeed,
I have not used those tactics you employ in training any dog whether it be in Sport, Sheep Herding or teaching Dogs to be Guide dogs for the Blind Folk, Now i am no Master dog trainer but i am not a dummy either, and i have the talents of some of the best trainers in the Dog world to call on or put me right should i go wrong and even the very best make mistakes no matter how long they have trained dogs and that was said to be by a 5 times world champion and they would certainly put you in your place very quickly indeed if they saw you treating a 10 week old puppy in such a manner, Now i have said all i am going to with you all the respect i had for you in the past went with your posting, to me you are a Yank and Crank trainer and you can keep your methods to yourself, My last reply to you on this subject you are not worth it any more
Steve1
Chaz
i do not carry a newpaper with me outdoors and my dogs live outdoors, If a Puppy goes to jump on me and i do not want it i say NO' in that voice and at the same time i bring my knee up so the Pup bumps into the knee and falls off they do not like it and a few times of this will stop them jumping on you, the knee bought up fast or with any force into the dog it is a just a barrier for the dog to knock against before it gets to you and send me over a pair of your expensive shoes mine come from the discount store
by Vixen on 02 August 2011 - 08:08
Steve, You are blinkered. Such horror in your mind that I should have the audacity to actually expect a puppy to learn to lay down (and remain so) at my request is abominable!!!! Poor puppy, he must have my foot firmly planted on his neck!!! Are you serious????? Puppies learn so much (given a chance) - You have no problem in continually 'house-training' a young pup - but of course that is different because you don't want a messy home!
By insulting me, you also insult the clients who attend my Clubs, or who I am required to visit. These people love their dogs and equally respect them too. I am sure you do know a certain amount about dog training, but 'training' i.e. 'exercises' are not sufficient to understand dogs, or indeed to place all your bets on 'obedience'!
What you obviously do not know or have not experienced with dogs - you declare rubbish! The sphere of my dedicated interest and experience, and consequence skills (which I make no apology for, because I feel politely proud to have the privilege of helping people and their dogs). That 'sphere' is wide and deep, going into a dog's world - fascinating, amazingly interesting and extremely rewarding.
Respect and Relationship goes far further than a dog performing specific exercises.
I therefore have the same pleasure in confirming that this will be my last message to you as well. (By the way, reference your last comment - respectfully and thankfully, I never say an Owner or dog are "not worth it" - even when I sometimes feel exactly that of the Owner)!
Vixen
by steve1 on 02 August 2011 - 09:08
Vixen
You say you prevent a 10 week old Puppy from getting up from a down for up to 30 minutes each day, you say PREVENT and not you or anyone else here is going to tell me that a Puppy of 10 weeks old will stay in a down for up to 30 minutes on its own accord NO; it will not so it is being held down or kept down and that it cannot be done without some force,
Pull the other leg Lady its got Bells on, You talk a good talk a lot of practice with your unsuspecting clients i guess But putting it into practice is different, As i said before you do not have a clue just a good talker. For me you are as i said a Yank and Crank handler nothing more and that practice went out a long time ago
If you think otherwise i will pay your fare to Belgium and then i will give you 11 week old Hektor and then you put him in a down on his own accord on a leash if you want to but you do not restrain him in any way with or without the leash and i will expect him to stay down for up to 30 minutes without getting up or showing any kind of stress, Then i will take you to the dog club and you can show the Guys and Girls there. So there you are Vixen prove your point,
However you will get nothing for coming over just a Hotel for the night and the flight, But you will have the chance to see what you are made of
I do not want to here that the Puppy in question would be put in a down in stages of learning to stay down remember this is supposed to be a Alfa Pup or unruly Pup at 10 weeks old the handler must watch it does not do a lot of damage to her i have a job to contain my laughter when i write that bit, It will probably will have never been in a down before because this is being done just to put this 10 WEEK old PUPPY in its pecking order of the so called PACK ORDER another two words never used over here in Belgium and Germany
Steve1
If you come over and prove me wrong then i will put a full apology on here to you and leave this forum to the more knowledgeable people such as yourself, However if you fail then you do the same on here and apologize and you pay your own Fare Air and Hotel
You say you prevent a 10 week old Puppy from getting up from a down for up to 30 minutes each day, you say PREVENT and not you or anyone else here is going to tell me that a Puppy of 10 weeks old will stay in a down for up to 30 minutes on its own accord NO; it will not so it is being held down or kept down and that it cannot be done without some force,
Pull the other leg Lady its got Bells on, You talk a good talk a lot of practice with your unsuspecting clients i guess But putting it into practice is different, As i said before you do not have a clue just a good talker. For me you are as i said a Yank and Crank handler nothing more and that practice went out a long time ago
If you think otherwise i will pay your fare to Belgium and then i will give you 11 week old Hektor and then you put him in a down on his own accord on a leash if you want to but you do not restrain him in any way with or without the leash and i will expect him to stay down for up to 30 minutes without getting up or showing any kind of stress, Then i will take you to the dog club and you can show the Guys and Girls there. So there you are Vixen prove your point,
However you will get nothing for coming over just a Hotel for the night and the flight, But you will have the chance to see what you are made of
I do not want to here that the Puppy in question would be put in a down in stages of learning to stay down remember this is supposed to be a Alfa Pup or unruly Pup at 10 weeks old the handler must watch it does not do a lot of damage to her i have a job to contain my laughter when i write that bit, It will probably will have never been in a down before because this is being done just to put this 10 WEEK old PUPPY in its pecking order of the so called PACK ORDER another two words never used over here in Belgium and Germany
Steve1
If you come over and prove me wrong then i will put a full apology on here to you and leave this forum to the more knowledgeable people such as yourself, However if you fail then you do the same on here and apologize and you pay your own Fare Air and Hotel
by Vixen on 02 August 2011 - 10:08
Steve, That is my job daily. To either rectify a problem behaviour (problems that vary considerably). Or to guide Owners in understanding their dogs, themselves with their dogs, and their dog's abilities. Plus Puppy Training - and learning to connect with a Puppy (from his/her viewpoint) is worth a weight in gold. I am proving my particular worth daily - which is why people attend my Club or recommend me to others.
How many Instructors do you know who when a client contacts to ask about joining their Club, suggest not only that they firstly visit and watch a Class, but recommends they visit elsewhere too in order to compare? Connecting a relationship with a dog is becoming less and less! - and I feel it is almost necessary and helpful for dog Owners to witness this for themselves. There is a huge difference between genuine confidence of ability to share and help Owners to discover, and pompous bragging! That is why I feel it is important that I say to every person who enquires, to visit my Club and one or two others, to see just what is being offered, and the extent of learning to understand the language of dogs and their interaction with us.
Steve, which one was your "last message/post" - this one, or the one before????
You don't respect me, fine, I didn't ask you to.
Neither do I need to prove anything to you - my clients and their dogs do that for me.
Vixen
How many Instructors do you know who when a client contacts to ask about joining their Club, suggest not only that they firstly visit and watch a Class, but recommends they visit elsewhere too in order to compare? Connecting a relationship with a dog is becoming less and less! - and I feel it is almost necessary and helpful for dog Owners to witness this for themselves. There is a huge difference between genuine confidence of ability to share and help Owners to discover, and pompous bragging! That is why I feel it is important that I say to every person who enquires, to visit my Club and one or two others, to see just what is being offered, and the extent of learning to understand the language of dogs and their interaction with us.
Steve, which one was your "last message/post" - this one, or the one before????
You don't respect me, fine, I didn't ask you to.
Neither do I need to prove anything to you - my clients and their dogs do that for me.
Vixen
by steve1 on 02 August 2011 - 12:08
Vixen
Yes, i replied after i said finish but i did it on purpose just to call you out and i knew the outcome before i posted you had your chance to prove your point at my expense and when i say a thing like that i mean it i would have paid,
However you have chosen your well rehearsed words to counteract as expected if nothing else you are predictable now this post is the end on this thread,
Now i will go and put Hektor in a long Down no need for 30 minutes, 15 is okay for his BH.
The rest of the training for his BH is easy enough i reckon he will be ready to take the BH by the time he is 16 weeks old, OH YES' If Training animals was so cut and dried we would all turn out to be a lot of Trainers like VIXEN
Steve1
Yes, i replied after i said finish but i did it on purpose just to call you out and i knew the outcome before i posted you had your chance to prove your point at my expense and when i say a thing like that i mean it i would have paid,
However you have chosen your well rehearsed words to counteract as expected if nothing else you are predictable now this post is the end on this thread,
Now i will go and put Hektor in a long Down no need for 30 minutes, 15 is okay for his BH.
The rest of the training for his BH is easy enough i reckon he will be ready to take the BH by the time he is 16 weeks old, OH YES' If Training animals was so cut and dried we would all turn out to be a lot of Trainers like VIXEN
Steve1
by Duderino on 02 August 2011 - 13:08
Steve1 you pillock. Up until now I have kind of brushed you off as an older gentleman who just loves to hear himself talk about his own dogs and chirp about "my baby daddy" and all of the world class trainers/handlers you hang out with. My guess is, they try and run and hide every time you show up. The statement that sent me over the top, besides the one about speaking to a dog in a soft voice, was the one about kneeing a puppy/dog for jumping on you. Since you are so eager to pay for people's transatlantic travel, I'll make the same offer, I'll pay for your trip over to the states and you let me knee you in the chest, just once. BTW, you're not going to need any luggage or a return ticket 'cuz all it takes is one. Ahhh, b(m)ad dogs and Englishmen.
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