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by VKGSDs on 08 July 2011 - 14:07
The problem I have with these databases is that they don't really show the whole picture, good or bad. For example, if someone knows their dog has terrible hips they probably won't submit to OFA for a rating, why have terrible hips in the database? So a kennel might be in the OFA database and show two dozen entries with Good or better hips but that doesn't necessarily mean that is the norm. Likewise, if there is a database for health issues, it might give the impression that breeders or dogs should be avoided for random occurences of unfortunately common health problems. I personally don't really need a database to showcase good bones or to list off all the health problems, I think that when asked breeders should simply be honest and forthcoming, and should not criticize other breeders for the same problems their own dogs are plagued with or throwing in their puppies.
by charity on 08 July 2011 - 14:07
Violet,
Thanks for explaining! I feel much better now.
Multiple languages is a great idea too. But yes, ok, if you insist, one step at a time!!
It would be awesome to have such a resource available, maybe using the gsdbbr site as an infrastructure to build on.
Thanks for explaining! I feel much better now.
Multiple languages is a great idea too. But yes, ok, if you insist, one step at a time!!
It would be awesome to have such a resource available, maybe using the gsdbbr site as an infrastructure to build on.
by charity on 08 July 2011 - 14:07
If it is a true genetic issue, then it will not be a random occurence.
Especially if the breeder does repeat breedings with the same 2 dogs.
Unfortunately the GSD has many, many genetic issues as Willis in his book points out.
As with anything else, honesty is key. In HD, for example, if a breeder does not submit x-rays to the OFA or "doctors" the results (not sure how that's done) then you are correct...it is an exercise in futility.
I see this as a tool, not the "final say" to be used in the betterment of the breed.
Especially if the breeder does repeat breedings with the same 2 dogs.
Unfortunately the GSD has many, many genetic issues as Willis in his book points out.
As with anything else, honesty is key. In HD, for example, if a breeder does not submit x-rays to the OFA or "doctors" the results (not sure how that's done) then you are correct...it is an exercise in futility.
I see this as a tool, not the "final say" to be used in the betterment of the breed.
by Abby Normal on 08 July 2011 - 16:07
In HD, for example, if a breeder does not submit x-rays to the OFA or "doctors" the results (not sure how that's done) then you are correct...it is an exercise in futility
To my mind this is where a BBR overcomes that problem. An owner doesn't have to have a dog screened to find HD when clinical signs occur later on, and the condition is diagnosed. The owner can publish that the dog had HD, was euthanised due to HD etc.
A BBR does not rely only on breeders giving information. This applies to other illnesses as well. Many dogs on the BBR link had a variety of conditions, not necessarily definitively genetic, such as bloat, bowel disease, spinal conditions etc. Some on their had a natural cause of death, but it may show a few minor health issues the dog had in it's lifetime. Some are showing a dog still alive with conditions already apparent, or no health issues at that point.
Naturally, not everyone woudl use such a tool, but if a reasonable proportion do, and are encouraged to use it, it can offer some insights based on a random sample of a breed population, as well as problems appearing regularly in some lines.
VKGSDs If all breeders were open there would be less need for such a database, but as you state yourself - all are not. However, that aside, I think it would be very beneficial to the breed as a whole to monitor a variety of conditions, some life threatening, some not so much. As Violet said, most people would rather deal with a breeder who has problems and is open about them, than deal in the dark - perhaps with a breeder who appears to have the healthiest dogs on the planet, but actually does not and conceals it.
I also think it should be international, and why the PDB could be the best place for such a registry to be created. The people required to run it would simply need to be independent and impartial (like OLI)
To my mind this is where a BBR overcomes that problem. An owner doesn't have to have a dog screened to find HD when clinical signs occur later on, and the condition is diagnosed. The owner can publish that the dog had HD, was euthanised due to HD etc.
A BBR does not rely only on breeders giving information. This applies to other illnesses as well. Many dogs on the BBR link had a variety of conditions, not necessarily definitively genetic, such as bloat, bowel disease, spinal conditions etc. Some on their had a natural cause of death, but it may show a few minor health issues the dog had in it's lifetime. Some are showing a dog still alive with conditions already apparent, or no health issues at that point.
Naturally, not everyone woudl use such a tool, but if a reasonable proportion do, and are encouraged to use it, it can offer some insights based on a random sample of a breed population, as well as problems appearing regularly in some lines.
VKGSDs If all breeders were open there would be less need for such a database, but as you state yourself - all are not. However, that aside, I think it would be very beneficial to the breed as a whole to monitor a variety of conditions, some life threatening, some not so much. As Violet said, most people would rather deal with a breeder who has problems and is open about them, than deal in the dark - perhaps with a breeder who appears to have the healthiest dogs on the planet, but actually does not and conceals it.
I also think it should be international, and why the PDB could be the best place for such a registry to be created. The people required to run it would simply need to be independent and impartial (like OLI)
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