Trustworthy German Trainers? - Page 3

Sit,
    Not sure where you get your info from about T only doing over the top drives working lines. If you read my post i said in the past year i've seen him train and title showline GSD's. Why are you so angry???? And why would you knock trainers for wanting to bring the best out in the dogs and want to score the best they can?? I know that's what i would want for my dog if i had to send him out. Doesn't make sense. Actually 6,000 is cheap for BH,AD,SchH1 and KKL. Jump on it.  I could never do it that cheap. Would never be worth my time. It takes a lot of work and time to get all those things done. Even with a dog with good drives.

   Mark

Mark, I don't think Sita'smom was angry- it was me responding to love my canine's idiotic remarks. You are right about T as well. At least he used to train showlines. There is another good trainer in the NE named Bogdan I believe.

Sitasmom,
If the dog can do all the aspects of the BH, retrieves the dumbell, and is progressing in the bitework why not train her yourself?  Tracking is easy and a SchH 1 track is very easy to train and pass.  The dog is 11 months now, put a year into training her then title and breed survey her yourself.  She'll be 2 years old and right on track.  You train at a club; it wouldn't take much to title the dog yourself if she is half of what you say she is.  Especially at your own club, where she could easily score in the 70's if a "breeders title" is all you want.   

I just don't see the need to send the dog away when all you want is a SchH 1 and a breed survey.
 
JMO,

Jim

Sitasmom,
I cannot believe you wrote the last paragraph in which you say that 75s are all that is needed for showlines. There is nothing more I can say but "Thanks for being truthful", but this mentality is where the showline people should get upset with; instead of WL breeders.

sl and wl owners have different interests. many if not most show line people get the titles so they can continue to show after the dog is 2 years old. after a title, the dogs only needs to do the conformation bite work and nothing more, no tracking, minimal obedience and minimal bitework.

when a working line dog is in the conformation ring, Its there for the breed survey and that once it gets its KKL it will most likely never be in the conformation ring again. I don't see wl people regularly practice show ring work, yet I don't poo poo them for not doing it. On the other hand, sl people are at club practicing ob and pro all the time.

how do wl people feel about getting that show rating and breed survey, bet its about the same as many sl people do about getting a title.

Mike sure isn't looking for a dog to just score a 75.....his dogs are top notch working dogs.....no matter what lines. You should just train your own dog...!

I wasnt going to make a few comments but I couldnt resist..... First off I would like to say that I have 1 SL male and 2 WL females.

Sitasmom said..
"Even with all of this, the trainers in USA want 6 months ($6000+++) to put a BH, AD, SchH1 and KKL on her..... its not practical. I understand that the trainers want to get the very best out for their clients, but I don't need a dog that gets 90+ in each part of SchH, I would be happy with 75's. USA trainers just don't seem to understand this. They want the dogs to be perfect..... for a working dog its important but not so much for the show lines."

First off these top trainers do this as a BUSINESS. The money that they make from training and titling clients dogs is their LIVELYHOOD. It would not look to good for them to get 75s across the board in all 3 phases for a title...whether it is a SchH1,2 or 3. If a potential client was looking for someone to title their dog, whether it be a SL or WL, and are looking at some of the top notch trainers here in the USA or Germany they are going to go to the trainer that gets good scores. Not barely passing scores. Also $6000 for 6 months is a very good price.

Sitasmom also said..
"sl and wl owners have different interests. many if not most show line people get the titles so they can continue to show after the dog is 2 years old. after a title, the dogs only needs to do the conformation bite work and nothing more, no tracking, minimal obedience and minimal bitework.

when a working line dog is in the conformation ring, Its there for the breed survey and that once it gets its KKL it will most likely never be in the conformation ring again. I don't see wl people regularly practice show ring work, yet I don't poo poo them for not doing it. On the other hand, sl people are at club practicing ob and pro all the time.

Isnt the German Shepherd a WORKING dog first and foremost?? I dont think that Max von Stephanitz developed this breed to just trot around a showring. But if you are going to be showing a dog in the ring I would think that you would want the best from the dog. Not just "minimal" work. 75's is barley passing... that would be like saying that you took your dog to the seiger show and would be happy with an SG placing. I dont think you would be happy  with that, I think everyones goal is to get VA. Same should go for the SchH titles, You should try for the best scores you can get!!
As far as WL people doing ring work. Most people that have WL dogs are more into the SchH aspect of it. I for one, have trained my dogs to do ring work since I would like to get a KKL on my dogs. Both my WL and SL dogs can do ring work. The SchH club that I go to also meets once a month and does ring work, that includes the WL and SL dogs.

So as far as Jyota goes, I agree with what Jim (Slamdunc) said.... If you have put that much time and effort into training her why dont you finsh the training and get her BH and SchH1?? She is still very young...she is only 11 months. You have alot of time to finish the training yourself. Wouldnt it be more satisfying to say that you took a dog from your own breeding and trained and titled that dog YOURSELF!? Spend the time and do the training correctly and get the best scores you can.

Just my .02 cents FWIW

JYL

"You have alot of time to finish the training yourself. Wouldnt it be more satisfying to say that you took a dog from your own breeding and trained and titled that dog YOURSELF!? Spend the time and do the training correctly and get the best scores you can."

Yes, I've put a lot of time into her basics, but I do not have what it takes to put all the training together. I know my limitations. I've done this so that her training will take less time away from home.

I was wrong, I'd be happy with 75,75,80!  Not every dog can be VA, some can attain V, and others less. Sometimes the best dog in the show can only attain a V rating - because of its parentage.
 
"First off these top trainers do this as a BUSINESS. The money that they make from training and titling clients dogs is their LIVELYHOOD. It would not look to good for them to get 75s across the board in all 3 phases for a title...whether it is a SchH1,2 or 3. If a potential client was looking for someone to title their dog, whether it be a SL or WL, and are looking at some of the top notch trainers here in the USA or Germany they are going to go to the trainer that gets good scores. Not barely passing scores. Also $6000 for 6 months is a very good price."

I respect anyone who can train a dog to SchH1 and put anyone that can put a SchH3 on a pedestal! I very much respect the few professional trainers in the USA, they are few and far between. Yes $1000 a month is a fair price for training if the dog is worked 2 times a day and 5 days a week. The person here in Texas I'd love to send Jyota to charges 1800 a month, plus expenses - minimum 5 months. Here in the US club fees are more, trials are not as common and the travel distance are farther and many times requires hotel stays. All of these charges are added to the cost of the title.

In Germany, the whole sport is much bigger, there are more trainers (more competition on rates), many more shows and trials and with much less travel. Trainers can get the dogs ready and then get the titles done quickly. They don't have to wait around for the next show or trial. They don't have to travel for as many miles and don't have to stay many nights in hotels along the way.

"Isnt the German Shepherd a WORKING dog first and foremost?? "

A 100+ years ago I would have to agree with German Shepherds being working dogs. But in this day, the vast majority of all German Shepherds (that are titled) are "sport" dogs, not working dogs. The majority of owners that actually train or own a SchH titled dog and continue to trial them and then breed them. The majority do not use them in a formal job such as K-9, SAR, Security etc... There are exceptions of course - Jyota's father worked as riot control prison guard.

Once Jyota comes back, titled, surveyed and shown, I intend to continue to work with her, and to improve her scores..... Once she has her titles, training and trials will be less stressful and much more fun.

"Maybe a 100 years ago the Gernan Shepherd was a working dog?????" What a loser attitude. I only want 75 s.  This Just proves my point.  Get a life. Get a different breed.  You and people that think like you are destroying our breed.  Tell you what, come see my dog, and then say  most German Shepherds are sport dogs.  I just can not believe what comes out of some showline people's mouth.