HOW MUCH FOR AN IMPORT DOG? - Page 3

I understand what you mean Jim, but still. Price alone is no guarantee of anything. First you find what your looking for, then comes price and the deal. I dunno, I just believe there are always those to good to be trues out there. And the very best should cost more, but common sense should dictate what is and isn't worth the price. Some people have more money than sense, leaves everyone else out in the cold.

Moons,
I absolutely agree that price alone does not guarantee anything.  We work on a budget and we try to find the best dog in our price range that's available.  Out of the 20 or 25 dogs I tested recently, I saw some that would make nice pets(IMO), a few that would be ok Police dogs and only 3 I would consider at all.  One was well worth the price and is turning out to be really great.  If that dog was older, he would have been sold for more.  So, I'd say 20 weren't worth anything near the $6500 asking price, and some should not have even been offered. 

JMO,

Jim

My friend who actually does buy and train dogs for police work has pretty much said the same thing about finding dogs with the right stuff. The prices were similar at around $4,000.00 two years ago, that was just to get the dogs here to the states and didn't include costs he incured going overseas to select dogs or the shipping. My problem is with these trained dogs offered at tens of thousands to people who are dazzled by websites and claims made. I have seen dogs with the right stuff as I call it from breeders you would never even consider, for pennies on the dollar, they don't even own a computer or advertise. So........ there just doesn't seem to be a rule that one could count on %100, ya just weed through whats there and make careful selection. If you find what you want then yes it's worth the price, to an extent. It is sad what some people call a GSD. My best dog cost me $350.00 and she could do the work if I had the desire to take her there, but you know me, thats not my thing. Anyway, glad I found some interest in this thread, it's slim pickings these days.

This thread makes me wonder.....

everyone has their own criteria of what makes a good dog and what they do to select a good dog.  Slam said out of 20-25 dogs, he only saw 3 that he would actually consider and the rest were overpriced pets.

I wonder what you all would think of each others dogs IF you didn't know the breeder.
For example, Slam went and saw the dogs that Hans has but didn't know they were Hans.  What would be your opion of them if he had 20-25 dogs.  Would it still be slim pickings?  Or Hans went to see some other breeders kennels on here and wasn't informed of who the breeder was, would he have the same opinion of the dogs they are selling??  Now you can switch the names to whom ever, I just picked two that are easy. 

It makes me think of how really different people see dogs and what they have to offer.  Everyone says that it is hard to find really good top quality working dogs but on the board alone you have quite of number of breeders here who claim to have top working dogs.  So is it that many are b.s'ers or does this exclude the people who come on here.

Ace,
I was specifically talking about evaluating dogs for Dual purpose Police K9's, not for sport dogs or pets.  I saw some dogs that would have made good sport dogs but not great Police K9's in my opinion.  They are different, I saw a couple  that would be great at both.   I am looking for very specific traits and our testing, evaluating and grading is based on our needs and what works for us.  I'm sure many of those other 20 dogs went to PD's and may perform well for them.  Many of those dogs would be great single purpose detection dogs and for an agency looking for and EDD or a Narcotics dog they are fine. 

It takes about 4 hours to test 5 or 6 dogs they way I do it, it is IMO very rigorous and designed to expose strengths and exploit weaknesses.  In an older thread I detailed our process for evaluating dogs. 

You are correct that people see dogs differently and view what the dog offers differently.  To each his own.  That's what makes the dog world interesting.  I know several breeders that come on this forum that breed fantastic dogs, many I would have as my sport or work dog.  My dog came from a breeder that visits this site.  As far as Hans goes, I met him in person and he was gracious enough to let me tour his kennel and visit his home.  Unfortunately, I didn't have time to work dogs but I saw several that I wanted to take home.  If Hans was closer than 2,000 miles away I would add him as a vendor for our Police K9's.  I was very impressed with his operation and his dogs.     


This forum has a diverse community with different needs and desires for their dogs.  I offered what I like and what I look for in a K9, since the thread was about importing dogs.  That is not everyone wants or likes and shouldn't be.  By the way, we don't get pedigrees on the PSD's and I don't know the breeders of any of the dogs we test.  We look at dogs and how they work, nothing else matters. 

Jim

Slam....

Ok I totally see what you are saying now.  I was thinking just in general terms but I see you are looking specifically for a dual purpose.  Makes total sense now.

Wow that is a pretty in depth testing time for a dog but due to the magnitude of work they will be doing I can certainly understand.  Do you have to go overseas personally to test them out or do you stick with domestically?

Yeah I didn't realize how differently people see dog evaluation and training.  I thought there was a pretty uniform code on things but after researching and watching these threads that is not the case.  See it more like the psychology field, everyone has a different method and technique and often people never agree.  I wasn't directing it at Hans just first person I could think of as an example.

Totally understandable and makes sense.

Next question is, if you get a import dog and pay good moeny whether it be a puppy or a green dog, wouldn't the breeder want you to obtain a title or 2?  Doesn't their business thrive on bloodlines and workability of the dogs that they have and breed?  I am guessing that they want to show that, "hey our dogs that have been bred produce great working pups that have titles and are working with X police department as a dual purpose dog, etc>"  Doesn't that help the breeder justify the cost of their dogs?  Kind of like a proof showing what we produce and justify the cost?

Duke,
That is exactly correct and my point.  If you can sell a dog as a detection dog, narcotics or explosives and they want dogs with no training why bother putting time into bite work training on the same dog.  Save time and expenses and sell it for a detection dog. 

Ace,
We deal with domestic vendors who import from oversees.  We have 2 or 3 that we primarily deal with and go to them to see what dogs are available at the time we need a dog.  We don't get pedigrees with the Police K9's, so perhaps the breeders are showing the vendors overseas what they produce and those vendors know who they are dealing with and what they produce.  We look at dogs from 12 months to 3 years, so many of the dogs are not even old enough to title.

Jim   

i sell good hard dogs and i paid dearly for the brood stock.i sell partially trained police dogs for 3500 and they come to kennel and test the dogs.that is the best way to do buisness but i will ship.videos are not a problem.i have a male for sale now.call name blackjack,  check him out www.mountainlakekennels.com    sable59

Jim,
           You had to use that word.......quality..... A few years ago.... the
saying the best dogs stay in Europe was pretty much true. Except
for the few dogs that people got because they knew someone who
knew some one in Europe. Over there even if you have to sale a very good dog
there is no shortage of buyers...But I would say people like Hans, who has got
access to the old proven bloodlines and good dogs as well. Are beginning to
change things for the better. The Kennels here that started with good foundation
stock and intelligently build on that are now reaping the benefits. I stay with
the kennels I started with 20 years ago, but if I were to start over..... I would look
here in the states. I know exactly what I am looking for and would travel the
states to find it. In Europe, it's not the Sieger, that people make offers on .......as much as
the Junior Sieger. There was a problem with this a few years back. Because the
Japanese were starting to ad another zero.....which cancelled out me and my friends.
That was in the 80's.....Now it's much easier to get your hand's on a Jr Sieger for
a reasonable price..