Understanding the difference between "Distant" Linebreeding vs. Outcrossing - Page 3

 I,m glad to see this thread still going it,s a good conversation. Over the last week a breeding has been brought available to me Below is the pedigree of the breeding Please give me your honest opinion.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/para.utkoma?fadir=509123&modir=446929


Steve:

              If everything works out with Izzy(which i,m sure will) that is a very intresting breeding.

I like Candy, but don't you think 2-3 linebreeding on Troll is very close ! I know it is permissible but isn't it a very close one ?

Ibrahim 

Troll v Haus Milinda was linebred himself a 2-3 on Fado.

If you consider from a quantitative production viewpoint, Fado produced a 49.66%EBV for hips, Troll a 50.51%EBV, so little improvement, but still very good in regards to the remainder of the breed.

Linebreeding on "healthy genes", just produces "more of" the healthier genes.

Unikum vom Höllbachgrund was an incredible producer with 68.47%EBV, though he was linebred 2-3 on Torro vom Körbelbach who had a 44.65%EBV.  Healthier production was dramatically improved, DESPITE the linebreeding, through the unrelated-to-Torro motherlines.

Don't look at linebreeding as any healthier or less healthier, it's best to see it as more of or less of.  But remember, even a close 2-3 linebreeding is 37.5% of the same ancestor, which leaves a lot of room for things to get in or get out that are beyond your control.

Darylehret,

That is really educating insight, thanks for sharing

Ibrahim

That list is of the best 300 producing sires of all time registered under the SV since HD certification began, and to be quite frank, doesn't paint a pretty picture for "the best of the best" in this breed.  IMO, the EBV values on that list are a more realistic and accurate estimation of what these sires have produced than what the german HD-Zuchtwerte (ZW Breed Value) represents.  In my criteria filter, each sire must have produced 100+ progeny, whom at least a third have been examined.  This in effect reduces skewed statistical results due to foul play, and eliminates almost completely the "showline" variety of geman shepherd.  So obviously, that will exclude many good living producers who've yet to prove themselves, and therefore should be used in examination of 2nd generation or older portions of the pedigree.

The bottom listed sire produced 40% progeny with a1 hips, and the very best sire produced 74% progeny with a1 hips.  That does NOT however, mean that the average producer on that list produces above 50%.  Their individual distribution looks more like this diagram below, with the mean average more around 45%.  I would have less confidence in a pedigree lineup whose sires of the second or third generation didn't include dogs from this list.  Perhaps it would be useful to have the data coverage for the female producers as well, but they don't offer data on the proliferate scale that the males do, (having 100+ progeny themselves) and would require an entirely different set of criteria for a fairer examination.



For my personal breeding stock, I would prefer at least one producer of a breeding pair to be closely linebred, if not both the male and the female.  The exception being when one producer is an outcross of linebred lines.  Faro Policia is linebred 3-2 on Bero, Hutch van Tiekerhook is linebred 3-3,4 on Yoschy, and Nyx is an outcross of linebred Yoschy over linebred Cordon An-Sat.

Daryl:

                Thanks for the input, I find it very intresting.