Puppy growling at us over bone! - Page 3

Interesting reading....




I am not sure how you guys do your Alpha Rollovers  or may be mine is softer but you guys make me sound like I did a horrible thing..... What I did was turn him around on his back and looked into his eyes and growled at him back, at no point was he dropped onto his back or hurt, he was already lying down ond the grass; just rolled over literally. so what is the difference between what I done and "I would then grab him by the scruff and shake him and loudly say "no"".  Autor: hodie  .... I wonder how and Alpha male dog or wolf in the wild  would have done it in real life, may be actually attacking and hurting the dog to show his dominance.

I have taken pointers, and this morning the puppy was fed from my hand and this will continue for some time. He had been ok us with touching him while he was eating his dry food, but he didnt like it when it came to his raw chiken, may be it was too yummy for him.



ShadyLady


I strongly 2nd what Hodie has said.

Also, Swifteagle, we talked about your training with this dog, didn't we? I think the advice was that at the very least you need to instill manners and be able to manage your puppy with basic obedience. Well, this is one of those times

I agree with you, thats why I have started the training. Remember it is only so much you can do in 2.5 weeks.


steve1


You must be joking a bloody alpha roll on a Puppy in fact on any Dog where do you people come from.
If you had interacted with the Pup when you first had it i.e look time to feed it from your hand to accoustom it to you and you to it then you would not get the problem you now have, but eveidenty you did not for this to happen,
All you had to do in this case was as Hodie says pick it up by the scruff of the Neck, Just as its mother would do.' with a sharp No' i have mentioned this several times in the past, But what you did is stupid and please do not say otherwise for it is and laughable as well
Steve1

I AM INTERACTING WITH THIS PUPPY AS MUCH AS I CAN, I HAD HIM FOR 2 WEEKS NOW..... GOT HIM AT THIS AGE( 4 MONTHS).... I AM TAKING THE TIME TO FEED HIM, THATS WHY I CAME TO HIM TO PAT HIM WHILE HE WAS EATING.
ok now it is out of my system, I didnt like the fact that you think I am a some what bad owner. If I were a bad owner I would not be here asking for guidence.

Now going back to the "bloodly alpha roll",  I Did not drop him, I did not hurt him. He was already lying on the grass I just simply rolled him to his side and then on his back.  I think he could actually hurt more by me pick him up by the scruff as he weights 22.5kg rather than just rolling him on his back...

Once again, May be I did the wrong thing, so I will feeding him by hand more often ...  But for sure I DO NOT REGRET  what I did, I prefer he respect me  no matter what because I rolled him over, than having a dog that will turn on me. Same will stand for my children when I have some. I will not rolled them over though...lol

Regards

Swift,  I realize you are working at this and this is your 1st working puppy. I'm not trying to be harsh, but when things like this happen, a lot of us see red flags. The last thing we want is for you to have a grown dog out of control - of course I know you don't want that either (!). Looks like you will have to learn quickly with your puppy, as he is definitely giving you lots of lessons. Do keep us posted on how thing are going.

 Hi everyone.

Let us all slow down and take a breath and realize that we are using a term and many people use it differently here than what it might mean to others.

No SwiftEagle, no one thinks you are a bad guy. It is clear you want to do the right thing. And sometimes, it is difficult to know just what to do, or how to do it. Secondly, there are a lot of ways to accomplish the same thing. In this case, you used a term that meant really harsh treatment to some of us. I have done exactly this alpha role to a 14 month old male who bit me when I grabbed him as he was sticking his head in a bucket of poop wanting to take a bite. He was feeling his oats, and turned on me and bit me, right through my hand. He almost saw Jesus for that, because I upended him and put him on his back and took him by the scruff and screamed at him and held him down. It took two other set ups like that for him to realize I was in charge, not him, and he never did it again, nor would he. He had never challenged me up until that time. Had I let him win, I would have been in trouble because he would think if he did not like something, he could bite. Too many people allow that kind of situation to get out of hand. I stop it, then and there. Not every dog, not even every male will challenge and not every one will use a bite to say they don't like something.

Based on your explanation SE, what you did was fine. It was, in essence, the same thing as taking the dog in the manner I mentioned I would have done. Happy, hopefully this clears up as well what I mean. 

My point was and is this: one must never allow a dog to think it is in charge. That kind of conflict over who is in charge can happen at different ages, and over different issues. Food guarding or whatever one wants to label it can escalate and become a very, very serious problem. On more than one occasion I have seen dogs summarily euthanized when they are found to be threatening over food. It is very easy to fix when it begins, and much more difficult to fix later on.

There are many who want to take much "sweeter, kinder, gentler" approaches. My point about this is that one need not use any technique unless something simple and more gentle works. But there are many people who give advice about these types of problems who are in left field, simply because they have not had enough experience with enough dogs to know that there ARE some dogs who require much more than "building bonds", hand feeding and some of the other suggestions here. The trick is to know how to separate out what works and what does not need to be done, and solve the problem before it becomes a really serious problem.

And I agree 100% with you Happy that one must do the best they can for their own dog. Clearly SE wants to do that. And I think all who have posted realize that.

So what I am saying here is that in some ways, most posts are on track and have a reasonable viewpoint. But there are times when more is called for. I am very strict about three things. One is this exact type of issue. Another would be chasing cars, and a third perhaps training a dog that "come" means come and come this instant. Making sure a dog understands these three things will go a long way towards making sure the dog does not end up dead, being put down or hit by a car, or lost.

Again I agree with Hodie (I swear Hodie I'm not stalking you!) but with another step.

As hard as it can be (and I acknowledge it's hard) if you face a situation where you feel uncomfortable, *that* is the point to step up, take a deep breath, calm down and take control.

IE:

If you feel 'oh, my dog is going to get aggressive about his food' that is when you as the human owner need to step up and say 'no, I'm going to take this back.  If I want to take his food away half finished, 'he' WILL let me' and with CALM assurance make that movement.

With some dogs, it's going to involve more steps than others, no two dogs are the same.  If you feel you can't do this, than seek help from a professional who can be there with you evey step of the way.

Swifteagle
Feed the Pup by hand , that way he will look to you as his boss, or if you want to use the word 'Alpha' but they never use or have i  ever heard that word used over here in Europe, I think it is a way of you Guys expressing something
But it is not used over here this side of the pond
By feeding the Pup by hand you will help yourself and the Pup in more ways than it knowing who feeds it it will trust you and it will look up to you, Once you have done it for a time say a couple of weeks then feed it in the Bowl hand ful at a time so that he gets used to your hand being near the bowl Nothing will happen for the dog as it grows knows its food comes from your hand at times once it is adult you can then feed it from your hand on occasions it is good to interact with the Dogs this way
I can put my hand in the Bowls of my Dogs whilst they are eating from them and take a handful out but i have done it a couple of times but will never make a habit of doing so for once it is in the bowl then it is the Dogs but it goes down to the Trust of the Dog for its Master, Now if a stranger tried to do the same he would be minus part of the arm certainly with Goran, for he will not allow anyone to go into his Pen, let alone his food bowl but thats not what this is about,
Do the above and you will get your Pup looking solely for you as its Peer
When i corrected Izzy the other week it was nothing to do with food, She is Ball Crazy, i let her out in the garden and she was hunting my Pocket for a Ball that was out of order so i whipped her up by her Scruff before she knew what was happening She hollered and as she did i let her go she has not done the same trick since,  But i knew what she was after so 5 minutes later i told her to sit then i gave her the Ball but in my time not when she wanted it
Dogs are no fools they know right from wrong, but as Happyday says they will on occasion try it on more so a young dog it just learning where it stands in your system of who is who, just a natural reaction from a Pup and nothing nasty or sinister meant by it from the Pup
Steve1

I feel that now we are seem to be meeting at the same point here....  What I am getting in general is to try to teach the dog to trust  you, (hand feeding) and if the dog continues with the behaviour, futher action needs to be taken right then and there before it all gets out of control once he/she grows up.


I like to thank you all for taking the time and making a point and trying to teach us all the different ways each person has to resolve certain problem.

This afternoon he had his whole dinner fed from my hand and he was very happy to have it all..


Just another question.... Should I try to set up the same scenario in a few days as in the first growled at me to see if he does it again? or what would you do?

Thank you all.

By the way this is the puppy...he is now just 4 months old.... His name is Kai.

I believe that you are probably letting this pup up on your couch or letting him sleep in your bed.

Do you allow any of these behaviours?

If you have answered yes to either one, than stop, and the growling will go away.

My pups have never growled at me or anyone else when eating or playing, strangers can throw a treat to them, and if it falls in a hard to reach place, then the person can get it without the dog growling.  People can come in my house & pull toys out of my dogs mouths, I also have many dogs, so there is a pecking order, and the other dogs teach them that the human is on top. 

  Seems like you still need to remind him, and by all means, don't get on the floor & wrestle with him, that's a no, no.

  Good luck, he looks very innocent, cute.

 Do you have a picture of him standing, something about his front feet look different to me, may just be the angle you took his picture from,

  Thanks,
        Paula