14 Month Old GSD extremely dog aggressive - Page 3

I don't insult people, at least until the third or fourth stone is thrown.  Yoschy is correct IMO about being able to use the prong, but only with prepared handler anticipation, used with precise timing, and earlier in the milder stages before the unwanted behavior pattern was established and reinforced.  His threshold to react is probably much lower now than when it initially began, and the magnitude of the reaction much higher.  The prong, as I imagine it was used, only strengthened the undesireable behavior.

The more exposure you get to different types of dogs in their developing stages, the more you'll develop a sense of preclusion to certain behaviors, so that you can intervene before they fully manifest themselves.  It's much easier to shape a behavior in it's early stages, than to reconfigure an established behavior, because the neural pathways have strengthened for that particular response by repetition.  It's repeated, because to the dog, it's probably percieved as the most viable alternative with the most satisfactory outcome.

So, the sooner the better, don't put it off.  There's no shame at all in consulting professional assistance wherein safety is concerned, and potentially improving your handling skills.  There's also many situations that require two pairs of experienced hands to effectively accomplish a task as well, so even basic assistance can occasionally make a huge difference.  As every situation is different, with different dogs, different handler, different relationship between the two, different environment, and so on.... there's always going to be a new challenge waiting around the corner all of us, no matter our skill level.

One of the skills you should develop is to recognize the limitations of your abilities — i.e., know
what you know, and know what you don’t know.  Understand what your training is, and perform only at the level to which you have been trained.~Robert Speiden - Foundations for Awareness, Signcutting and Tracking

No limit may be set to art, neither is there any craftsman that is fully master of his craft.~Ptahhotep

in 100% agreeance with daryl.


i beleive they do have programs set up for handler dog classes/instruction. Call and find out. I will be chatting with there owner next thurday night. So if you dont get the answers you need let meknow and il find some.

JRS1984,
Some very good advice here.  But, IMO prong collars are not the solution for dog aggression especially when used by someone of limited experience.  If your dog does not feel the correction form the prong collar it is because of one or two reasons.  The collar is not fitted properly, it needs to be tight and directly under the chin.  The second reason is that you are giving an ineffective correction and it is delivered too late. 

The next problem with a prong collar for this type of behavior is that it causes pain which elevates aggression as correctly mentioned earlier.  When you correct a dog for dog aggression and use a prong collar ineffectively you will elevate the aggression level of your dog. 

There are two methods I prefer for dog aggression for novice handlers, first a nylon slip collar can deliver an effective correction with out escalating the aggression level.  You simply tighten up on the collar and remain calm until the dog stops the unwanted aggressive behavior.  This is the method that Cesar Milan uses repeatedly on his show and it works.  A far easier method is Tabasco sauce.  Put Tabasco sauce on a sponge and touch it to the dogs nose when the dog shows the first sign of aggression.  The Tabasco is harmless and will not affect the olfactory system or cause any damage.  It will however be unpleasant and the dog will immediately stop the aggressive behavior.  You remain completely calm and give the dog a command like "Knock it off" and go about your business.  This is very effective and works quickly. 

I also agree that your obedience is lacking.  Big deal if your dog sits for food, that's nice but it's not real obedience.  The dog sits because he wants the food and why make him wait 30 minutes for his meal?  I am also not trying to insult you, please don't take this that way.  I have a very hard, dominant, aggressive, high end Police K9 who is also very dog aggressive.  I can not tolerate any dog aggression what so ever.  It is far to dangerous for me and my dog for him to go off task and want to chase or fight other dogs.  I can walk down alley ways at 2 AM and my dog will not look at another dog, even if a dog comes charging towards him.  I have complete control over him and he understands that dog aggression is not tolerated.  I have not used the Tabasco method with him as we straightened out our issues early on.  But as a pup I may have if I knew about it then.    

JMO,

Jim

when she does her agression thing grab her look her straight into the eyes and knock her up under the chin - hard -  with an open hand. tell her "no" at the same time...........then wait about 30 minutes before you accept her back into your pack

YOU need to be tha alpha, and you need to make sure that she realizes that her agression is not acceptable.

Per the Monks of S.... book

What you need to use is - What people call "choke collar" but it has to be used right with right amount of pressure at the right time.

Trust me, your dog is NOT immune to the prong collar.

1) You are either using it wrong, e.g. fittign too loose or dangling around his neck. It has to be fit snug and right behind his ears.
or
2) Your jerk ont he prong collar is of the nagging, pussy jerk variety. More than a tickle, but less than a true correction.

When you give a good timed, hoest to good,I mean business prong correction, all you will hear is a startled yelp and the dog will immediately stop what he is doing or change its behavior.

But, we can type here all day, internet advice is bad advice. You need somebody who knows how to deal with strong, dominant dogs -in person.

Best of luck to you.

And also... Please don't be a jerk and let your dog salivate over his food bowl on the ground for 30 minutes.

if you give him a command sit and he sits, put the bowl down and let him eat in peace. He did what you asked him to do. That kind of an ego trip is not training or control and it will not earn you the dog's respect that I THINK you are trying to achieve by doing that.

I think you honestly want to work this out with your dog and I am not knocking you off or trying to insult you, although I am blunt.

You need a fresh pair of eyes in person that knows how to deal with this issue. I have heard of Tarheel before that somebody here mentioned, the owner is Jim or something like that, they should be able to help you address this problem and solve it successfuly the RIGHT way.

Again, best of luck.

SitasMom, IS that really in the Monks book? I can not abide by using a flat open hand. I have seen to many dogs afraid from abuse, and then being hand shy. I had one rescue here that when she settled in, she got the idea in her head she did not have to take it any more and would go after strangers if they came at her with a hand. It was a nightmare to turn her around. She was the most gentle old soul I have ever come across.

1doggie2, I agree.

1doggie2,
Well said.  I completely disagree with Sitasmom and that is really bad  advice.  Your hand is for praising and petting not slapping, smacking or punching your dog in any way.  Go ahead and slap a dog in the face when it is in a fearful aggressive state.  Or better yet not fearful and just aggressive being a novice handler and see how well it works.  Keep plenty of bandages nearby then come on the forum and ask "why doesn't my dog trust me?  Why is my dog so hand shy?"    It's nice to quote books, but IMO it's better to have some actual successful dog training experience before offering advice especially on aggression.   

My other piece of advice is to get some books written in say the last decade.  Dog training has evolved a lot in the past 10 or 15 years, we all need to keep up with the times. 

JMO FWIW,

Jim


still sitting here shaking my head when thinking about slapping an aggressive dog under the chin...

I have a few dogs I would like SitasMom to try that with. I just want to make sure it works before I do it myself.