Can't keep her attention - Page 3

No I understand but when Im walking the dogs I dont very often have enything they  could focus on but me and the same result came out they are both sticking to me the female though is running round searching for prey to chase but if I call her and wants her to be attending to she will , but all dogs dont work for free they do have somehting that they are hoping to get a toy, treat or whatever

I just don't know where to start, there are so many gimmicks trainers try to sell people on these days and so much crap to weed through I would have to write a book just to scratch the surface.
I will say the longe line work done at the right time in a dogs early life is the most ingenious tool one can use and has many purposes beyond simple focus if it is done correctly.

Yes Koehler had flaws that anyone with common sense can easily see, if that person has any common sense to begin with.
But the structure of his routines and specifically the longe line exercise is not one of them.
I have never had to resort to a pinch collar and have never caused an injury with a choker chain.
My dogs do not prance up against me with their nose up under my arm pit, they are totally aware of their surroundings and everything that's going on at all times.
Not looking for a treat or the next over the top praise.

So much depends on the bond and trust between you and your dog, socializing and consistency, use it or lose it.
There is only eye contact and the sound of my voice between us, no devices.
The reward is our companionship and the doing.

My only warning is not all people or dogs are created equal, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear if you understand my meaning.

I should add that I'm at a great advantage over most when it comes to animals, it's who I am, comes from my mother, she was this way as well.
Animals can see right through you, trust me, they all have that ability to read you.

I have confronted aggressive, abused, hardened animals, trained and even wild, and have succeeded where others could not.
I've entered the protected area of so called trained attack dogs and set next to them on their owners steps at the front door of their home.
I have been bitten a time or two, no denying that, but I still prevailed.  I have also stopped the attack of a trained k-9 with brute force, so much for resolve.
I could probably come to your house and take your dogs for a joy ride in my car, unless you have properly trained your dog in a very specific manner.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, I've tried most of them, so unless you've used the longe line technique properly you should not knock it.

Treats and rewards are great tools and have their place when done correctly.

Some devices have their place as well, e-collars, prongs, throw chains, but they are easily abused and become a destructive thing if not done precisely as needed in a timely manner.

I have seen many animals ruined by foolishness and ignorance in my life.

I'm fifty nine years old, I got my first pet at age five, my first dog at eight, and have raised and trained more variety of animals than I can count, so I do have a little experience.

Moons.

Moons
Can I be really thick and ask you to explain the "longe line technique" you often refer to, please ?
I am confused between:  Long Line
                                     Lunge Line (as with horses)
                                     Umbilical
In dog training I know what I mean by all three,  but yours seems different ?  Or is it just one of those translation difficulties,  do you mean what I think of as "long line" i.e. 15m of tracking line or
similar used to remind the dog at intervals that it isn't free really, and that you can still give the orders ?

Actually,
I chose Koehlers spelling directly from his book, yet I'm sure you understand the meaning and are correct, a fifteen foot length of line of suitable strength for the size animal you are working with, be it a horse or a dog, yet the line is used in a different way for those two animals with some similarities.

Koehler devotes eleven pages to this and it's more than I care to reproduce here.

Best way to think of it I guess would be as you say, the animal is not free and must depend on you for any and all direction.
Also laying the foundation for leash corrections later.
The process is complex and needs to be understood before you begin, I suggest following his approach to the letter for best results.
Also when to start is important given the age and size of the dog.

This exercise has many functions in it's purpose beyond the obvious, and if the trainer does not use it correctly lessons are lost and time wasted.
There are no shortcuts.

It's at the very least worth looking at and you could probably find one in a library at no risk.

The Koehler Method of Dog Training.
And yes some of his stuff is crap too, you will know when you read it.

Moons.

 

The most important piece of equipment for this foundation step is the piece of tape for the handler's mouth.


The concepts are really basic.. and I would say are still the same foundational concepts for all good training..
I think the biggest issue most people have is translating the written word into practical modern applications..

That is an area many misinterpret.

Bill and Dick (his son) were not unfair at all.. quite the contrary.. their timing was impeccable.
Their best attribute was how well they both presented the understanding of how canine mind works to people.

In other words, they were both really, really, good at showing average, ordinary people how to train their own problem dogs... especially the VERY bad dogs with serious issues.. 

Well said.

Thank you Moons.
Like you I value this approach (whether espoused by Koehler or others more recent) and have used a long line with success.  Also like you I do not use pinch collar, and rarely resort to even a check chain these days, mostly working dogs on flat collars or half-checks.
I am no pushover, and there have been times when I have resorted to "strong arm" methods with certain dogs in the past, but by & large I prefer positive methods.  I am only training Basic Obedience though, I dont speak as a protection area enthusiast; so I am working with more pet and low-drive dogs (of course, there is always the odd one !).

moons


my dogs dont prance up against my legs if we are just out walking and running around I think there is a huge difference between competition OB and ordinary OB at home

I have myself never ever used a long line leash to get the dog to come to me we train restrained recalls and that one of the best method in training a dog to come when called It certainly have worked for my three ones

Hundmutter,
You can only use positive methods with highly intelligent animals in my opinion, even though firm corrections are sometimes needed, you can not trust fear as a tool.
Also I do not see the logic in letting another train a dog without your involvement, a horse maybe but still it is the owner who must live and work with the animal, the bond and trust are major components along with the lessons learned.

As for protection I've always done some form of it but for the average person I think it is risky and comes with much liability and responsibility.

A sound GSD with proper drive and that bond will protect instinctively at least as well as I would care to depend on myself personally.
I believe the bond to be the most important factor in any relationship with an animal.

Lately I've had to work with one of my dogs who exceeds her boundaries and goes into the road.
It took only the time and effort to watch her and make timely minor corrections in a consistent manner.

This is something many pet owners fail at, actually taking the time and putting out the effort to deal with problems immediately.
Any animal left to it's own devices will make up it's own rules.
Use it or lose it.

Finally I would say this, pick the right dog, a GSD is not the right dog for many people who own them in my opinion.
Also pick the right dog, because there is a great difference between a high drive working dog and something one would only want as a pet.

Rule one, waste no time, an eight week old puppy learns fast, make the bond, be positive with a pup, and have a plan before you begin.

I would hate to train dogs for others, mainly because before you could begin you would first have to teach the owner.........:)


Moons.



 

myret,
I do not use the line for recalls.
I teach the pup to come at the same time I teach it it's name as soon as I have the pup.

I agree there is a great difference in ones purpose and how they chose to train.

Training for competition has more to do with what the judges want than with my own desires, same for showing, it's all about the judges isn't it.

Moons.