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by Mindhunt1 on 21 November 2010 - 19:11
I agree with Wetzler on sleeve focused dogs.
A good dog with a good trainer will generally do what it has been trained to do whether sport or work, as to whether it can cross over into the other realm depends on the dog, trainer, and handler/owner. I do believe the handler/owner has an influence on the dog. But this is my 2 cents and probably worth exactly that
A good dog with a good trainer will generally do what it has been trained to do whether sport or work, as to whether it can cross over into the other realm depends on the dog, trainer, and handler/owner. I do believe the handler/owner has an influence on the dog. But this is my 2 cents and probably worth exactly that
by Slamdunc on 21 November 2010 - 19:11
Triodiegirl,
Don' t get upset with Greg for stating what is obvious and true.
How are the inexperienced supposed to learn?
They learn by getting out and training their dogs. Everyone is a novice at the beginning, regardless of the sport or activity. They learn by trial and error, by seeking out knowledge from those that are successful, they read and try new things. They go to seminars, they watch others train and see what works and more importantly what doesn't work. I am always amazed by the novices that I see at SchH clubs who stand around and gossip and don't watch others working their dogs. It seems to me the experienced people or the serious newcomers watch what others do and take it all in. When we train I watch everyones dog work, I look for behaviors and similarities to what my dog does and what others do. I watch the others track and try to read their dog and see the subtle signs that I can pick up from the dog. If I can learn to read someone else's dog, won't I be better able to read my own dog? If I see a handler do something different than I do and it seems more effective, I'll try it. If I see a handler doing a poor job, I'll remember not to do what they are doing.
Q-man, why would a German Shepherd, of all dogs, have to be taught to bite for real? A good dog should instinctively bite for real to protect his master or his property.
Unfortunately, this is rarely the case. Dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years and have been bred to not bite humans. Couple that with the owner raising the dog and constantly saying "No bite", "ouch, no bite" and the dog is taught bite inhibition. So, most dogs actually the vast majority are not equipped by nature (genetics) or nurture to really protect their master or property. I know everyone thinks they have a dog that will protect them for real, the sad truth is most are mistaken. If a determined bad guys comes at you and is not afraid of your dog, 99% of the dogs people have will not be effective without training.
Let me put it this way; Michael Jordan one of the best basketball players of all time has a child with the greatest female basketball player of all time. Their son is raised never playing sports, never playing basketball and turns 18. Do you think he can go and play basketball with the pros with out any training or coaching? He has the genetics for it, but not the nurturing or training. What would his first experience be like if he was handed a ball and sent out to play some tough NBA players? Do you think he'd be demoralized, loss confidence and pack it in? I bet he would with out any training. Not much different for our dogs.
Sure there are dogs that will bark at someone who comes near the property or rush the door if someone tries to break in, as long as they scare the bad guy away the dog is a hero. If the bad guy came in and actually confronted the dog, most dogs would probably run and hide behind it's owner. With training the dog has a better chance and may stay and fight longer. Even the best athlete or boxer can't fight well with out thousands of hours of training. why would you expect more from a dog?
JMO FWIW,
Jim
Don' t get upset with Greg for stating what is obvious and true.
How are the inexperienced supposed to learn?
They learn by getting out and training their dogs. Everyone is a novice at the beginning, regardless of the sport or activity. They learn by trial and error, by seeking out knowledge from those that are successful, they read and try new things. They go to seminars, they watch others train and see what works and more importantly what doesn't work. I am always amazed by the novices that I see at SchH clubs who stand around and gossip and don't watch others working their dogs. It seems to me the experienced people or the serious newcomers watch what others do and take it all in. When we train I watch everyones dog work, I look for behaviors and similarities to what my dog does and what others do. I watch the others track and try to read their dog and see the subtle signs that I can pick up from the dog. If I can learn to read someone else's dog, won't I be better able to read my own dog? If I see a handler do something different than I do and it seems more effective, I'll try it. If I see a handler doing a poor job, I'll remember not to do what they are doing.
Q-man, why would a German Shepherd, of all dogs, have to be taught to bite for real? A good dog should instinctively bite for real to protect his master or his property.
Unfortunately, this is rarely the case. Dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years and have been bred to not bite humans. Couple that with the owner raising the dog and constantly saying "No bite", "ouch, no bite" and the dog is taught bite inhibition. So, most dogs actually the vast majority are not equipped by nature (genetics) or nurture to really protect their master or property. I know everyone thinks they have a dog that will protect them for real, the sad truth is most are mistaken. If a determined bad guys comes at you and is not afraid of your dog, 99% of the dogs people have will not be effective without training.
Let me put it this way; Michael Jordan one of the best basketball players of all time has a child with the greatest female basketball player of all time. Their son is raised never playing sports, never playing basketball and turns 18. Do you think he can go and play basketball with the pros with out any training or coaching? He has the genetics for it, but not the nurturing or training. What would his first experience be like if he was handed a ball and sent out to play some tough NBA players? Do you think he'd be demoralized, loss confidence and pack it in? I bet he would with out any training. Not much different for our dogs.
Sure there are dogs that will bark at someone who comes near the property or rush the door if someone tries to break in, as long as they scare the bad guy away the dog is a hero. If the bad guy came in and actually confronted the dog, most dogs would probably run and hide behind it's owner. With training the dog has a better chance and may stay and fight longer. Even the best athlete or boxer can't fight well with out thousands of hours of training. why would you expect more from a dog?
JMO FWIW,
Jim
by BabyEagle4U on 21 November 2010 - 20:11
* " If the bad guy came in and actually confronted the dog, most dogs would probably run and hide behind it's owner. " *
-- I think this is the difference between sport and real life too. Because if someone would bust threw my door with a sleeve on and my son and I are in our bedrooms, my dog would prolly just bite and hang on till my son or I said something. I doubt the perp could get threw the woods too my door and in without me knowing though, wild animals have their own vocal communication and domestic animals pick up on it.
Now, if someone was to get past the wild animal communication that something or someone new is in the area by chance and my dog is confronted with a perp bustin through the door without a sleeve, she's comin right to me. I trained her that way because if anyone busts into my home they will have a gun. I know this. I don't want my dog shot. (with the exception I'm not home, then she is to defend Christopher as all cost) My dog is trained only to defend Christopher my son in the home. If I'm home she is to come to me ASAP. I round up Christopher and we lock and load. If I go down, my dog gets medieval.
I dunno. For me the sleeve is a tool for real life situations .. the sleeve its self dictates how the dog should react in the home anyhows. Without training her on the sleeve first, she'd prolly bite everyone walking threw the door. JMO.
-- I think this is the difference between sport and real life too. Because if someone would bust threw my door with a sleeve on and my son and I are in our bedrooms, my dog would prolly just bite and hang on till my son or I said something. I doubt the perp could get threw the woods too my door and in without me knowing though, wild animals have their own vocal communication and domestic animals pick up on it.
Now, if someone was to get past the wild animal communication that something or someone new is in the area by chance and my dog is confronted with a perp bustin through the door without a sleeve, she's comin right to me. I trained her that way because if anyone busts into my home they will have a gun. I know this. I don't want my dog shot. (with the exception I'm not home, then she is to defend Christopher as all cost) My dog is trained only to defend Christopher my son in the home. If I'm home she is to come to me ASAP. I round up Christopher and we lock and load. If I go down, my dog gets medieval.
I dunno. For me the sleeve is a tool for real life situations .. the sleeve its self dictates how the dog should react in the home anyhows. Without training her on the sleeve first, she'd prolly bite everyone walking threw the door. JMO.
by jc.carroll on 21 November 2010 - 23:11
Phil, Sting,
I couldn't agree more. Well put.
I couldn't agree more. Well put.
by habanaro on 22 November 2010 - 01:11
Does anybodies dogs protect them against "fake" life. I would think if you threw a mannequin out in the front yard about once every 2-3 weeks and let your dog decapitate it as well as remove its arms and legs it would have a disturbing visual impact for many of the neighbors and word would eventually spread and people would leave you alone. Not so much because of the dogs but because you have so many mannequins. I believe for visual effect you should repeatedly stab the headless torso of the mannequin with the bottom half of an artificial Christmas tree with the branches attached.
I don't think you would have to worry too much about unwanted visitors and you would save a great deal of money on Halloween candy.
I am wondering if anyone has any hints on how to scare Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny (s well as professional sports mascots with oversize heads as they tend to bother me
Bored-- have a day :/
I don't think you would have to worry too much about unwanted visitors and you would save a great deal of money on Halloween candy.
I am wondering if anyone has any hints on how to scare Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny (s well as professional sports mascots with oversize heads as they tend to bother me
Bored-- have a day :/
by sting369 on 22 November 2010 - 03:11
My 'guard' dog has a tactical method of keeping the Easter Bunny away as well as the Chubby guy in the red suit. My dog statedgically places all his squeeky toys around the perimeter of the property and inside the door ways. It works really well as alarms. And I should know because I always step on the friggin things at 3am when I wake up to go pee and end up scaring the crap out of my self, and then proceed to fall down the stairs.
by habanaro on 22 November 2010 - 03:11
I might have liked Santa more if we did'nt heat with wood as a child. I felt that because he had to come down the vent pipe for the water closet i always got gipped for toys...
My dog leaves his kongs on the stairs..they are like ball bearings for fat people..
My dog leaves his kongs on the stairs..they are like ball bearings for fat people..
by sting369 on 22 November 2010 - 03:11
Signs also work.
I have one for Easter that says "No Bunny Alive is fast enough to escape the prey drive that lives here".
I have one for Easter that says "No Bunny Alive is fast enough to escape the prey drive that lives here".
by Mindhunt1 on 22 November 2010 - 04:11
OMG Sting369, I think I hurt myself laughing on that one. My dogs used to leave their toys around for us to step on and since our house had multiple sets of stairs, my hubby almost killed himself tripping over a toy and then as he caught himself stepped on another which caused him to pick up his foot while still off balance and down the stairs he went although very gracefully thanks to many years of marital arts training. I hurt myself laughing (and clapping) that night too, hubby landed on his feet at the bottom of the stairs after doing some crazy near flip/twist. It looked great and I had no camera. Toys went into their toy box at night after that.
by sting369 on 22 November 2010 - 04:11
The funniest thing is that the dog then thinks he has got himself an intruder when he hears the racket, and so comes running around the corner barking like he is Jerry Lee starring in the sequel of K-911, which further scares the bejezus out of me. At least by that time I no longer have to use the bathroom if you know what I'm saying.
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