something i find interesting - Page 3

K9topnotch, speak for youself, DB! Don't speak for Jen. I like Jen. She knows that she can speak to me personally. Go back to your thread where you're getting thrashed for being a scam-artist.

I also like jenn and her dogs. Why would anyone think she is a scam or suggest so.

Rik

 Touchy, Don. LOL. I know what you were saying. 

I was simply expounding and giving reasons why people would do so w/an older dog. I found Michael's post rather pessimistic. I have no such motives and I'm sure there are others like me. Maybe I'm just an optimist;-) 

Rik likes me, Don likes me, I like Rik and Don...aren't we all just one big happy family? LOL 

Jenn, I like you too, I like the way you stand up for what you think is right, no matter who you are speaking with. My post was not aimed at you so please don't take it that way. It was intended in general, I just don't like the  first right of refusal statement regardless of who it's from. Like others here in my opinion if I buy a dog, it's mine period. If I decide to sell or give the dog away, it's also my decision who I sell or give the dog to. Any individual might encounter circumstances where they need to rehome a dog, regardless of who makes the decision where the dog goes. Unfortunately none of us can control what may or may not happen in our future and as long as the dog is rehomed by a knowledgeable, responsible and ethical person I really don't see where it matters if it's the current owner or the previous owner who rehomes the dog. Lets face it, it might not work out regardless of who makes the decision.

 I didn't take it personally; I just thought it was an unnecessarily negative way to see a part of a contract, that's all. I know why I would do it, and I think there are others who have good reasons (or at least good intentions) also. 

It's not about who makes the decision; I want to know where they go for many reasons. Some of it is greed, I guess; what if something happens and I lose my access to those lines and would like to breed back to one? Or what if I find some genetic problem and want to make people aware? Or what if (this is happening to me right now) you have a very special dog you bred who now needs a new home and you know damn well that if not in the right home, she could be very dangerous and could be PTS? I would rather buy them all back if it that happens and then decide what to do with them. I don't see the aversion to telling the breeder or seller what you're doing. I think it's only fair; these are dogs, not cars. 

I buy mine back- any age, any reason. 12 years, 12 months...all the same to me. Because it's the right thing to do; I couldn't sleep at night, let alone breed if I wondered where my pups were. But I am admittedly a control freak when it comes to my dogs. 

With Prudence, I even called the people I bought her from to advise them of my plans to sell her. I thought it was only right. 

And Michael, I like you too, of course. You can be added to the "big happy family" list. LOL ;-)

What about me Jen? Don't you like me?  The thing is, I would never, ever for any reason rehome MY dog. They have a home for life, no matter what.

 I really don't see how having the right of first refusal in the contract shows hypocrisy and a lack of trust in the buyer. 

Breeders want to be able to keep tab on their dogs and see how they are doing for many reasons, and it is too easy to loose contact with a dog if it keeps changing hands - even if the dog keeps changing hands because it is so AWESOME and so much dog that "normal" people can't handle it, but an experienced handler could, and would like to have the dog for his/her training/trialling/breeding goals. 

Breeders may want first right of refusal because:

They personally care about where the dog ends up!  

They are interested in following the dog's progress, trial/work carreer, and long-term health issues in order to be able to know how their breeding program is working out, and to be able to make the best and most informed decisions for future breedings. 

It seems to me that more and more GSDs that look like they are from working lines are ending up in shelters and in rescue. How did they end up there? Some dogs show up in shelters and rescues that have obviously have had some advanced training and respond to typical Shutzhund commands. The breeder who sold the dog must have trusted the buyer to make sure the dog will always have a good home - but now it has been dumped and abandonned, what happened? Where were the security nets?  Either way, the breeder is often blamed for not taking the dog back, but how can they if the original owner has sold the dog and the breeder has lost track?

Experienced handler, like the OP, who feels that he should be able to get a dog that is too much for the average owner, but he could easily handle, may not like the right of first refusal because they were not able to get the dog. I'm sure if the OP knew that the owner was thinking of returning the dog to the breeder because it was too much for them to handle, they can contact the breeder, let them know that they are interested in the dog, and work out a mutually satisfactory agreement, may even give the dog to the experienced handler since the dog is so much dog that it would be difficult to place it appropriately. 

The OP sounds like there is a dog he would like to acquire from someone, but can't do so directly, and for whatever reason does not want to go through the breeder, and so is upset about not being able to get what he wants. 

I could be wrong on this one, but I have a hard seeing what is hypocritical about a breeder that accepts personal responsibility for the life of the pups they produce, and for the appropriate placing of older dogs? 

I didn't think this was about breeders not taking their dogs or puppies back or a dog being dumped.

My point of view on this, was a breeder saying that the new owner can never sell or place the dog. It's like no matter what, the new owner is stuck with a dog they no longer want for whatever reason.

It's not about the new owner not being able to keep or take care of  the dog.

And it's not about lack of communication between owner(seller) and breeder either.-- So the owner talks to the breeder about placing the dog., but then the breeder/seller gets a bruised ego over it and the owner is the bad person?

I want to know where my dogs and puppies are too and want to be involved in a correct re-home or placement, but I'm not going to get all up tight because the original owner doesn't want "my" dog any longer.

Beetree, lol. I only mentioned the ones who specifically "liked" me. I like you as well. We all like each other. LOL

I have never seen a contract that says what ShadyLady is describing. How could anyone really sign that and guarantee they can honor it?

It does sound a little hypocritical but I understand the reasoning behind it. People want to know when their dogs change hands and would like to help find the right home and have the new owners info for keeping in touch.

I just went through this myself. I asked my breeder if he wanted my dog, he did not. No big deal, but I gave him first chance, before I advertised the dog for sale. I told the new owner that the breeder would like to hear from him and gave the breeder the new owners name and contact info.  

Not that big a deal and hopefully everyone is happy.