Civil work video - Page 3

I don't know what everyone else is seeing in the video, but here's what I see. The dog is obviously a trained ppd, that responds to a voice command and alerts and shows aggression toward a percieved threat. Will the dog bite, I for one would not want to test the dog without protection gear involved. [ I believe the dog will bite]  The dog in question seems to be very civil in my opinion, obviously the dog has beeen trained for  civil aggression. Maybe some see civil agression as untrained aggression toward a human with no agitation or equipment, I would deem this type of dog to be a dangerous,unreliable animal. In my opinion, a civil dog is one that can be trained to attack and bite on command or in a percieved threatening situation, with no equipment involved. I certainly don't consider a dog to be civil if he has to be trained not to bite in certain situations. A good example of this type dog in my opinion is a police dog , drug dog or ppd that bites children or citizens unprovoked in public, there has to be a balance of civil and social behavior in the dog and he has to be clear headed enough to know which behavior to exibit and when, otherwise he is a dangerous liability period.

Pirates Lair, going by the video's I would say your training program is on target and it looks like you guys do an excellent job. I don't see anything lacking in the video as for as defining controled civil aggression, I don't know what else anyone would need to see.                                      Michael

Michael, my definition is merely a dog that will bite without equipment. In equipment, I mean a sleeve, suit, etc. I believe that it is part of the dogs temp and is not a drive. You can teach a dog through "civil agitation" to bite without equipment, but not a civil dog. GsDfan sounds like she and I are on the same page. I know my video was not a good example and I will look today. Maybe GSDfan can post a good one.

Michael, also, I'm not saying that dog isn't civil and wouldn't bite. I'm also not saying that's a bad video. I just said as GSDfan has stated that in my opinion, it doesn't encompass the full prerequisites for civil. I'm not being critical of the video, just whether it fully is a video of a civil dog in "my opinion".

Don, no explanation needed  here, we both have the same idea's about a civil dog. The only point that I don't understand is how you would test or train a civil dog without using some form of civil agitation. The videos that Prager posted are still using a small amount of civil agitation, just enough to get a reaction from the dog, but present regardless of how little. Actually what I see in those videos is  strong young dogs showing early defensive behavior when civil agitation is applied. I think Prager and Pirates Lair have both shown  civil dogs, just at different ages and training stages-levels.Would any of the dogs actually fight if they were off leash with real pain inflicted and given the option of flight, who knows but then again whose got the balls to find out,not me.                         Michael

Agreed. Pragers videos were of young dogs new to civil agitation. I thought the same question when watching. PL's video is of a dog that has had training and I would guess that the bad guy in the video is PL, who has propably done much of the training on the dog. I could be wrong about that. I don't know. If I am right, It would be cool to set up that scenario with a "complete" starnger with a hidden sleeve. See if the control goes down and the intensity goes up. See what the dog does if the bad guy actually confronts them. Once again, good topic and video. Like the training outside of sport.

The dog "Bobi" in PL's video is as real as they come. She's also a nice social dog that can turn it on and off with the flick of the switch.

Don's suggestion is a good one and I'm sure Bobi would handle it like a pro.

I'm not the Decoy in video Don, I'm the guy with the mustache talking.
 
I guess we are going to have to make another video to appease the critics.

Any of our Dogs will light up and agress on a total stranger when told to, but we would never do that unless it was neccessary (like the video example).

To suggest we have the dog light up on a total stranger is a nice idea but not a wise one. Using unskilled Decoys for that kind of work is not safe or advisable.

Suggest a scenario that would involve "your concept of Civil Work" from start to finish and I will see about a video being made to address your concept.

Kim

PL, I'm not suggesting you use a random person. I meant a decoy your dog has never seen. I think your video is fine, just would have taken one step forward where the guy comes at them and either goes to just out of the dog's reach or gives a bite on a hidden. Hell, I wish I could find a video of a dog spitting the sleeve after a slip and goes right back for the helper. Or even a helper that throws the sleeve to the side of the dog and the focus stays on the man. The dog could give a 5#!+ about the sleeve.

Take a look at these two videos Don, is this what you mean

http://www.youtube.com/canczechdogs#p/u/13/l5osw4ynoUI

http://www.youtube.com/canczechdogs#p/u/12/jXiNUbUDRyM

Well hopefully Ruger1 will link it.  Everytime i put the address in, it says, "Bad Response from the Server"