Welcome to the United Schutzhund Clubs of America - Page 3

Sue, I agree with your post but that doesn't mean things won't change.  I am a co-founder of a club that is now WDA.  We were going to be USA and WDA but, well, obviously USA doesn't want us so their loss.  Our focus/goal is TRAINING and TRIALING.  That comes FIRST regardless of what line or type or even breed of dog our club members have.  We would like to have a WDA show but that's b/c a show can be a money-maker and it's also a good time to use an SV judge for ADs and Breed Surveys.  We joined the WDA in January and had our affiliation trial last weekend.  We plan to host a trial yet this year and hopefully host a regionals in the future.  We are also hosting the WDA national training seminar in Sept.  Our TD did the obedience and protection demos at WDA Nationals this past weekend.  We have not entered a conformation show as a group since October and even then we found a nice location and did some bitework after the show so as not to miss a weekend with a training day.   My dog got SG2 at that show so now he is done showing since you need the SG rating and X-number of show cards (I forget how many but he has 3 WDA show cards so I hope that's enough) for a Breed Survey.  I've already skipped out several shows this year and passed on helping with photography at Nationals last weekend in favor of not missing training.

It does remain to be seen, the amount of WDA trials.  It is a fair criticism. Our club is trying to do our part.  If trials are what WDA people want then they should start working harder and make it happen and not just rely on other clubs (either WDA or USA) to host trials and then pick whoever has more.  It's not impossible to do, we are doing it and most of our club members have their first Schutzhund dog or even first dog ever.

Maybe it depends on what part of the country you're in.  In the Southwest, WDA Schutzhund trials are below par.  I think you get 70 points just for entering.  Sad, but there's just no pride in "earning" a SchH title at one of these events.  Too bad, because I'm sure the competitors think they're working hard and have good dogs when they walk away with titles and good scores for substandard performances.  

The regionals generally have three or four competitors at the 3 level and the judging is no tougher than a club trial.  I'm sure the conformation shows are well attended, but what does that say about where their strength and importance is?

I have to admit, several of the [far too few] California WDA clubs have behaved in ways very detrimental to the credibility of the organization, hence the recent wave of broad sanctions (members and club not in good standing). That poor behavior has easily fostered the current belief in the West coast that WDA clubs only exist to provide shows, and opportunities for dogs and handlers with sub-standard working abilities to earn titles for breeding, to make money. Happily the clubs in the rest of the country, in general, (yes, there are exceptions) have resisted the temptation to bring in "easy" judges, those happy to award undeserved titles, rsik suspension of their judge licenses, in exchange for first-class airline seats and lavish free vacations. We all know who they are. They don't care which organization the people entertaining them belongs to, USA or WDA, working or show orientation, as long as they have a great time.

So--- if you are concerned about people thinking (or knowing) that you might not have really earned that title, or you did the AD in the club house over brandy, (don't laugh) don't trial under those few judges. I just wish a few of them signed their names more clearly in scorebooks so I'd know better if the dog somebody wants to send me to "just get the 3, he already got the 1 and 2 in Germany..." (insert long sigh here) is going to arrive not knowing half the exercises, or genetically devoid of the temperament necessary to earn "real" titles (or, yes, AFU beyond all repair).

If it were up to me, there would have been quite a few more sanctions before now, on both sides of the pond, but at least the strong message to clean up their act has been sent to the offending clubs and members.

On the other hand, I find the talk abut USA departing from the rules and standards, as set by the SV/WUSV, "to preserve the breed"  VERY disturbing. USA proponents claim the SV is pandering to the animal rights activists and show line money folks (who have always run the SV, granted), and that GSDCA-WDA will ruin the breed, particularly the working ability, but isn't that exactly what GSDCA did decades ago, leading to the sad state of the American show line GSD knock-offs we see in specialty shows? Now we see a paradyme shift in that same direction, folks thinking USA is "ready" to strike out on its own, JUST LIKE THE GSDCA DID, to the near ruination of the breed in this country. Are we really "preserving the breed" (not to mention interest in the sport)  in diverting from the WUSV, continuing to polarize show line fanciers against working line enthusiasts? I think NOT.

I wish I had time to expound further on this subject, having held my tongue for the most part so long, but the clock says I have to quit for now. Its cold and raining and I'm in a bad mood anyway. LOL

S

The lack of entries at the WDA Nationals says a lot.

 

"So--- if you are concerned about people thinking (or knowing) that you might not have really earned that title, or you did the AD in the club house over brandy, (don't laugh) don't trial under those few judges. I just wish a few of them signed their names more clearly in scorebooks so I'd know better if the dog somebody wants to send me to "just get the 3, he already got the 1 and 2 in Germany..."


  Shelley, I agree.  It's like no matter what, people will complain about something.  Don't like those clubs or judges?  Perfectly fine, just don't go to their trials or hire them to preside over your club's trials.  It seems very simple to me.  Most of the complaints and criticisms of lack of participation and conduct are valid, but then we need to DO something about it and not just sit around and complain that USA has so many more trials than WDA unless you plan on belonging to a USA club and making dang sure your club is doing their part in hosting trials.

And I am getting sick and tired of people looking down at titles earned in Germany!!! What makes you think that they are less earned than here in the U.S. and whoever makes these claims, I would like to know from you if and how many times you have watched a trial in Germany to make such a statement which is an accusation that a judge looked the other way and signed scorebooks without counting points.
Further, I am sick and tired of people thinking that we can not evaluate our dogs because we did not title them here in the U.S. That is the biggest BS I have ever heard in my life. We are not kennel blind, on the contrary rather more critical than others.
I have many friends who I respect and hold in highest regard for their dedication to title their dogs and compete but this is not my calling. I have a busy life and no time for that, but even if I did I would not. I am content with the handful of dogs I have and to raise a couple of litters a year, not shying away from going out of the way financially to pair my dogs up with the best possible outcome. How dare anybody looking down on these efforts by suggesting that this can't be good since I did not title my own dogs.
Yes, I have a problem with so called breeders as well who breed their untitled and unproven dogs on their ancestor's merit only and use as an excuse that they can't afford the price for a title (I certainly know that it is not cheap). On top of it, most people here do not even make an effort to find suitable breeding partners for their dogs. Matings over here are usually done either due to convenience (stud close by), money (stud dog owner takes puppy or payment later or not at all), placements (I have a VA dog living in my state) or other stupid reasons (this dog is ugly and has missing teeth but bites like an alligator).
In Germany, it is very common that a breeder (workinglines or showlines) has people titling the dogs. They either pay for that service or they coown the dog. No breeder can do it all. The same people who criticize us over here would not hesitate to rave about wellknown kennels like Stadtfeld or Salztalblick on the workingline side or Wildsteiger Land or Fiemereck on the showline side. Tehse kennels routinely send their dogs out to titling. This kind of hypocrisy is just sickening.
Ok, I am done venting and I want to make it clear that I did not address anybody personally.
Back to UScA:
They have always looked at showline people as second class members and an avenue to pay for the organization with show and breed survey entries. Over the many years of our membership, we have heard that and felt that attitude over and over again. They claim to stand for the betterment of the breed and that is just fine. But the fact remains that they can not issue any FCI recognized registration papers for dogs. Their papers were never worth anything anywhere. I believe Johannes himself found that out the hard way years ago when he realized that he had a problem for not registering his litters with the AKC. So in essence, UScA is nothing else but a dog sports organization - unlike the SV and RSV-2000. Totally different scenario, as both are members of the VDH (the latter only in probationary status for now) but that gives them the right to issue FCI-recognized registration papers. It is very common in Germany to have two organizations for a dog breed. It is also common to regulate memberships and restrict it to just one organization - but they have to recognize each others documents and trial results and allow members to go to local events of the competing organization. The SV for example, leaves it to the local clubs to regulate participation of RSV-2000 members in SV sanctioned events. Perfectly legal!
Chris

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Chris, and I don't look down on titles earned in Germany. I am just in the group of people who don't have the means or desire to send my dogs away. I don't think it's limited to showlines, either, a LOT of working lines aren't h.o.t. either.  

Kennel blindness exists in all kind of breeders, all lines, titled, not titled, sent away, titled at home...all kinds. I have a myriad of reasons for wanting to train my own dogs, but I do not disprespect breeders/importers who do not, indeed, I have bred to dogs who were certainly not h.o.t. but great dogs nonetheless! I know very knowledgeable to people who don't need a SchH to be able to assess a dog's quality, and people who own titled dogs and have no clue what they are looking at.

Very interesting info about SV/RSV-2000. Hopefully UScA will follow suit.

Thanks, Kelly! I was just trying to vent a bit and express my opinion that we should all be tolerant of each other. We all have different interests but one common love: Our GSD!
It just irritates me that some people think that everybody who owns, breeds and shows titled dogs is at the same time obligated to trial them! To each their own!
About the competing organizations: RSV-2000 members were livid when they found out that they were being banned from membership with the SV. The SV has a paragraph in their bylaws which regulates that (paragraph 9, section 5 (b)). It states that you cannot be a SV member if you belong to either a canine organization not recognized by the FCI or VDH or a competing breed organization regardless of FCI or VDH affiliation. There were several lawsuits and they were all turned down in court. The last appeal on May 6. The appeal court in Munich ruled that the paragraph is legal and the SV has the right to regulate its membership this way.
To compare that to our situation here: I would have no problem belonging to only one organization if we have the right to participate in the other one's events. I think that is basically what is at stake here for a lot of us "simple" members. It is only the loss (monetary) of the organization as to not being able to collect membership fees.
Chris

I Agree, we should be able to compete in each other's trials.  I think as things stand now, you can compete in a USA trial if you are a member of USA or an AWDF member club like DVG, no?

Comparing the US and Germany is pretty useless, IMO. They have different traditions and perspectives. Just because things work in Germany does not mean it's good for, or will work in the US.

I don't think that people discount dogs because they were sent away for training in Europe. I think they discount those dogs because they are never trialed once they come to the US. This gives the perception that they are hiding something. This idea is then validated when one sees the shabby performances in the conformation shows bite work.

And I have seen bullshit trials both here in the US and abroad. And it stinks no matter where it is.