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by steve1 on 12 April 2010 - 15:04
Certainly you are not going to better the Work rate of the Dogs through there Pups simply because the Showline is not cut out really to the job, not in top class competition anyway, No more than the working line dog is for show in top competitions, So for that reason only No' but it is a straight forward question getting a straight foreward answer
As regards Police work well i cannot say as i have never trained a Dog for that job But Jim (Slamdunc) can certainly answer that one he for sure will know working with such dogs every day.
However it is not a stupid question at all others will probably not agree with what i say, we shall see
Let me just say this If Izzy ever gets Her ScH3 and Firstly her Hips are Good she will then have to get Korclassed then if i breed her it will only be to a really Top WUSV male of the highest calibire and a suitable pedigree to click or what i think i am already looking that far ahead i know the lines i want similar to her but performance is too early yet, but a dog who has perfomed in the top bracket i.e top 20 in the WUSV more than once, to look closer at the time will be done other than that i would not be interested in Breeding her
That KIt Kat alone will tell you how i feel about the Question but a good one never the less
Steve1
by Two Moons on 12 April 2010 - 15:04
And this is where the lines split.
Each has its own specialty, specific talents and abilities.
Each breeder wishes to concentrate on those traits.
Out crossing would only delay results, complicate the process.
But if the right individuals were selected it could enhance both worlds.
Just my opinion but it's all in how you see the breed in your own eyes.
And how much time your willing to spend to achieve your true goal.
I see value in crossing certain lines, depending on what your looking for and the time you have to do it in.
Moons.
by TessJ10 on 12 April 2010 - 15:04
So they look decent while they're getting their SchH titles (LOL).
"Why would you want to cross a Showline to a working line if you were wanting the Pups For ScH and i am talking about the sport only so before anyone jumps that is made clear. Certainly you are not going to better the Work rate of the Dogs through there Pups simply because the Showline is not cut out really to the job"
So you're saying that ALL working line dogs are better at SchH than ALL showline dogs? This simply is not true. Of course there are crappy SchH showline dogs, but there are certainly thousands of "working line" bred dogs that aren't any good at SchH either, so blanket statements like this make no sense. A good working showline bred to a good-working, working line that has good conformation, because lord knows many of them look pretty un-typey, might work.
by missyfly96 on 12 April 2010 - 15:04
If most people think the working lines are better at working, what in your opinion if the specialty, specific talent or ability the showline has to offer?
by bea teifke on 12 April 2010 - 16:04
i will say that not all show lines have roach back as my female is as straight as they come, she is 100% show lines and yes she can work , she has med. drive and is excellent at herding.
she is just right for my family.....
by missyfly96 on 12 April 2010 - 16:04
Why the split with sl and wl. All working line people think wl can do the work better and have better drive, so what does showline have to offer?
Why the split? Anybody have any detailed opinions on this?
by zdog on 12 April 2010 - 16:04
by sueincc on 12 April 2010 - 17:04
It's nothing personal.
Those of us who prefer working lines actually think a "v" rated working line dog is better looking than a "va" rated show line dog, we want a much more agile dog built for quick exceleration, quick turns, etc., the conformation is different for a dog who needs to excel in sport, and I'm not even talking here about the differences in drive state and energy. I don't want a dog that looks like a show line, because I prefer working lines. So what would be the advantage to me to mix lines?
Same thing for those who prefer show lines. They think a "va" and a "v" rated show line dog is better looking than a "v" rated working line dog. They want a dog who can move like a show line, and do it all day, they prefer the elegance, the emphisis is not on high drive state and work ethic.
Another issue is the 2 types are so divergent it's almost like an out cross. You won't get stability of type for several generations, which is an expensive undertaking for most. In the first generation you may luck out with nice crosses and you might not.
So yes, there is a niche market for a show line/working line cross, but more people want one or the other, for specific reasons.
I think there is always a split - look at the hunting breeds and retrieving breeds - same thing. It just depends on what you want. I don't think there is going to be any great trend for mixing the lines, though.
by TessJ10 on 12 April 2010 - 18:04
'"they prefer the elegance, the emphisis is not on high drive state"
Is the German Shepherd Dog supposed to always be in a "high drive state"? There are many ways working dogs can work. SAR, therapy, herding, police...there is much more than SchH sport. SchH sport is it's own special niche, and it seems to me that a lot of people equate SchH sport success (high drive dog) with proper temperment for a GSD. I don't necessarily buy this.
by sueincc on 12 April 2010 - 18:04
First off I wasn't critisizing anyone. I am merely stating that to mix the lines is a difficult undertaking, to get stable results, you need to be able to breed a few generations because rarely in the first generation are you going to get what you are looking for with any uniformity.
For me the proper dog is one with a very high drive state, who is still quite manageable in the house, very common amongst all my working line friends both who compete at the local level and those who compete at the higher national and international levels. The dogs aren't kept outside because they are unmanageable, this is a myth perpetrated by those who are not familiar with a lot of working line dogs. They are kept outside because people think it's healthier for the dogs, sometimes because people think putting too many house manners on a young dog is not a good idea, there are many reasons, but rarely because the dog is unmanageable, that's usually the result of faulty upbringing not a high drive state.
For you, perhaps you prefer a lower drive dog. That's fine too, what's good for you is not necessarily good for everyone else and by the same token, my ideal dog is not going to be the ideal dog for everyone else. This is why I believe there is plenty of room for both.
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