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by truthserum on 26 March 2010 - 15:03
Jon Luc,
Are you saying that the obedience portion in SchH is weak? If so, I can't honestly have an intelligent discussion with you.
BTW, when was the last time Bellon trialed a dog? Just curious. He's out at seminars demoing his dogs all the time...why doesn't he compete with them? Maybe it's because he can't do it without the bells and whistles. Just something to consider. :-)
Behun,
The only reason I am on you is because you do nothing but bad mouth other trainers and handlers who are MUCH more accomplished than you. You are great at putting guys down like Ellis and others, but can't hold a candle to them as a trainer, handler, or coach. You're a very insecure person who hasn't shown a dog from your training in years...and doubt will ever again. In order for you to be successful, you'll have to hire a coach to help you and also step away from your computer to do that. Lol!
Are you saying that the obedience portion in SchH is weak? If so, I can't honestly have an intelligent discussion with you.
BTW, when was the last time Bellon trialed a dog? Just curious. He's out at seminars demoing his dogs all the time...why doesn't he compete with them? Maybe it's because he can't do it without the bells and whistles. Just something to consider. :-)
Behun,
The only reason I am on you is because you do nothing but bad mouth other trainers and handlers who are MUCH more accomplished than you. You are great at putting guys down like Ellis and others, but can't hold a candle to them as a trainer, handler, or coach. You're a very insecure person who hasn't shown a dog from your training in years...and doubt will ever again. In order for you to be successful, you'll have to hire a coach to help you and also step away from your computer to do that. Lol!
by Phil Behun on 26 March 2010 - 16:03
Just a quick note before I go out and "coach" one of my clients/friends with her tracking on two Shepherds she intends to trial in a month. One that she was told by several people would not do SchH at all, and incidentally the last time she trialed, took High Protection and High Obedience. Who cares if someone hasn't trialed in recent months, or a couple of years for that matter, does that demean their accomplishments? Did Mike Ditka not coach the Chicago Bears to a Super Bowl victory with one of the best football teams of all time 20 years after he played (moment of silence for the '85 Bears)? Is he not in the Hall of Fame? What Bart Bellon has accomplished with dogs and what he is continuing to accomplish with dogs is the stuff that legends are made of. Anyone who has competed at a high level has found different ways to motivate dogs to that level with different tools. To quote one in particular "Anyone who believes they can train a dog without the use of the electric collar is a fool". Probably paraphrasing that just a bit but the meat of the quote is the truth. "Training a dog without the electric collar is like trying to treat an infection without anti-biotics". Not even going to mention who made these comments but I will guaranty (sorry Jon Luc) you that it is someone who has done a ton more for the sport of SchH and absolutely deserves your piddly respect.
Incidentally, I have never broadcast myself as a "great trainer" as you put it, thanks by the way. I offer my opinions on an open forum in response to questions or others opinions. I have never put an ad on this website offering services as a "great trainer". I have placed ads for litters of puppies and once placed an ad looking for a female to replace retired brood bitches (to which I got burned for the sum of $4000 by the woman who contacted me back. Edit Revesz/Anita Szitas I'm not done with you yet!). Since you have such a problem with me and this has just become jousting that only you and I could ever hope to enjoy, why don't you just E-mail me or even call me and bitch at me for that matter, I'm easy to find. This is really a waste of time as you are always going to hate me and I will never, ever get on the trial field again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe.
Incidentally, I have never broadcast myself as a "great trainer" as you put it, thanks by the way. I offer my opinions on an open forum in response to questions or others opinions. I have never put an ad on this website offering services as a "great trainer". I have placed ads for litters of puppies and once placed an ad looking for a female to replace retired brood bitches (to which I got burned for the sum of $4000 by the woman who contacted me back. Edit Revesz/Anita Szitas I'm not done with you yet!). Since you have such a problem with me and this has just become jousting that only you and I could ever hope to enjoy, why don't you just E-mail me or even call me and bitch at me for that matter, I'm easy to find. This is really a waste of time as you are always going to hate me and I will never, ever get on the trial field again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe.
by Jon luc on 26 March 2010 - 17:03
Truth,
I did not say SchH was weak in obedience, I said IPO, and SchH were very, very weak
in obedience.And you can have an intelligent conversation with me. Do you think I might have
let my mouth over load my ass? I could get hung by my ears.
I did not say SchH was weak in obedience, I said IPO, and SchH were very, very weak
in obedience.And you can have an intelligent conversation with me. Do you think I might have
let my mouth over load my ass? I could get hung by my ears.
by Jon luc on 26 March 2010 - 17:03
Truth,
Phil does misspell guarantee, but Americans have been doing that since 1670.
Phil does misspell guarantee, but Americans have been doing that since 1670.
by LAVK-9 on 26 March 2010 - 18:03
Posting this on here as wel as the double thread of this.Not sure why it was made to another thread.
Just cause someone trains or has trained "pets" doesn't mean that they aren't able to train in other facets of the dog world. I do take that as an insult as I train pets too but have the knowledge to train for many other things. I nor Phil are only stuck in just training pets but it is the thing that makes the money and it is needed much more the training for competition.If there weren't educated trainers out there to train pets....there would be many more unruly dogs. I guess I can't really speak for him but I do know him and what he is capable of. Through my many years of training, I am sure with Phil too, we have trained many different breeds and dealt with many different behaviors. If someone only trains for competition I personally think they are very limited on knowledge of training. When you train dogs for SAR,police,service dogs for the handicapped,pets,tricks, work with behavior issues,boundary train, dog sports and many other facets of training you become more educated then if you just stuck to training "competition dogs". So to say that Phil is just a pet trainer....no that is a very wrong statement. He has trained for a dogs for a vast amount of things as I have. Maybe if I could have worked with him I might have been able to title my dog as I was training him up for SchH.My life just didn't allow it. I have nothing to gain by saying what I know about Phil but I just think it is wrong that you say things about him when aparntly it is just out of spite and not truly knowing his ability as a trainer.
Phil has his faults as we all do but he is a good guy and one of the few people I would trust working my dogs with. The first GSD I had I worked with Phil cause no one else could help me.My dog was seriously aggressive and Phil was actually one of the few men that my dog liked all others he wanted to attack. I learned alot from Phil on training a dog like that. So thanks Phil, thanks for the knowlege. Even when at the schH clubs I have listened and learned things from you.
~L~
Just cause someone trains or has trained "pets" doesn't mean that they aren't able to train in other facets of the dog world. I do take that as an insult as I train pets too but have the knowledge to train for many other things. I nor Phil are only stuck in just training pets but it is the thing that makes the money and it is needed much more the training for competition.If there weren't educated trainers out there to train pets....there would be many more unruly dogs. I guess I can't really speak for him but I do know him and what he is capable of. Through my many years of training, I am sure with Phil too, we have trained many different breeds and dealt with many different behaviors. If someone only trains for competition I personally think they are very limited on knowledge of training. When you train dogs for SAR,police,service dogs for the handicapped,pets,tricks, work with behavior issues,boundary train, dog sports and many other facets of training you become more educated then if you just stuck to training "competition dogs". So to say that Phil is just a pet trainer....no that is a very wrong statement. He has trained for a dogs for a vast amount of things as I have. Maybe if I could have worked with him I might have been able to title my dog as I was training him up for SchH.My life just didn't allow it. I have nothing to gain by saying what I know about Phil but I just think it is wrong that you say things about him when aparntly it is just out of spite and not truly knowing his ability as a trainer.
Phil has his faults as we all do but he is a good guy and one of the few people I would trust working my dogs with. The first GSD I had I worked with Phil cause no one else could help me.My dog was seriously aggressive and Phil was actually one of the few men that my dog liked all others he wanted to attack. I learned alot from Phil on training a dog like that. So thanks Phil, thanks for the knowlege. Even when at the schH clubs I have listened and learned things from you.
~L~
by truthserum on 26 March 2010 - 20:03
Behun,
Yes, Raiser has my respect. But, truth be told, the sport has also passed him by. He will never have the success he once had in the sport.
And, Dikta was not a good coach. He just had a hall of fame defense coached by Buddy Ryan and a competent offense led by McMahon and Walter Payton. But, he's an entertaining broadcaster. :-)
BTW, I think you need to re-read your past posts...you give the impression that your opinion matters...it doesn't. Keep preaching to the uneducated ones. Lol!
Yes, Raiser has my respect. But, truth be told, the sport has also passed him by. He will never have the success he once had in the sport.
And, Dikta was not a good coach. He just had a hall of fame defense coached by Buddy Ryan and a competent offense led by McMahon and Walter Payton. But, he's an entertaining broadcaster. :-)
BTW, I think you need to re-read your past posts...you give the impression that your opinion matters...it doesn't. Keep preaching to the uneducated ones. Lol!
by Jon luc on 26 March 2010 - 20:03
LAVK-K9,
I met my wife when she worked for Guide dogs for the Blind in Topanga Canyon Ca.
I was captivated by the way she approached dog training, and by her looks of course. This was about
1974-75. The people there were using operant conditioning 20 year before any of the working sport
dog clubs. But their dogs were very expensive and had to do tasks that were critical to the welfare of the
owner. Ivan worked at the Bay area GDFB I think it was early 90's. So I would say good training skills
are where you find them. Keep your eyes opened and use your brain. Also try to see things through the
dogs eyes.
Truth,
you will just have to take my word for it there is still miles and miles to go to improve
dog training. It's an open field for someone who love dogs, and likes to work out doors. If you just
want to be a club trainer, I can tell what to expect for the next 20 years.
First you win some trials a little fame, than you become a judge, than you meet the love of
your life, have some kids. Drink a little wine with other old farts. Than buy some land and a
horse. And now your out there starting over again learning horse training.
Ty Murry, said he is not going to rodeo any more, he just wants to go back and learn good horsemanship.
Quote from Western Horse Magazine.
Lavak-K9 did I tell you about my horse?
I met my wife when she worked for Guide dogs for the Blind in Topanga Canyon Ca.
I was captivated by the way she approached dog training, and by her looks of course. This was about
1974-75. The people there were using operant conditioning 20 year before any of the working sport
dog clubs. But their dogs were very expensive and had to do tasks that were critical to the welfare of the
owner. Ivan worked at the Bay area GDFB I think it was early 90's. So I would say good training skills
are where you find them. Keep your eyes opened and use your brain. Also try to see things through the
dogs eyes.
Truth,
you will just have to take my word for it there is still miles and miles to go to improve
dog training. It's an open field for someone who love dogs, and likes to work out doors. If you just
want to be a club trainer, I can tell what to expect for the next 20 years.
First you win some trials a little fame, than you become a judge, than you meet the love of
your life, have some kids. Drink a little wine with other old farts. Than buy some land and a
horse. And now your out there starting over again learning horse training.
Ty Murry, said he is not going to rodeo any more, he just wants to go back and learn good horsemanship.
Quote from Western Horse Magazine.
Lavak-K9 did I tell you about my horse?
by LAVK-9 on 26 March 2010 - 23:03
Jon Luc- Yes you told me about your horse.I was looking at place in CA for either working with horses again or doing what i do best and what I know the most ....training dogs. Great thing about your wife training service dogs. I have taught my GSD a few things like opening the fridge and fetching things other then just a dumbbell.It was a good thing I did. When I was out hiking in a canyon with a friend and as we finally made it to the top his hat blew off and went down the canyon we just got up!!! So I told my dog to go get it and he did.He was much quicker and had more energy then we did.lol
There is always room for improvement in training.I have learned so much with keeping my ears open and my mouth shut (unless asking questions) from some top competitors and trainers out there.For this I am thankful to have met the people I have.
There is always room for improvement in training.I have learned so much with keeping my ears open and my mouth shut (unless asking questions) from some top competitors and trainers out there.For this I am thankful to have met the people I have.
by Phil Behun on 26 March 2010 - 23:03
So training has passed Dr. Raiser by????? I guess the 3x BSP winner, last one in '04, has forgotten everything he knew about training. So much so that in 2007 he put up the highest LG qualifying score 98-96-99=293 for the BSP with Finch vom Loyola and also won the inaugural Masters Tournament in 2008. I'm guessing you were right there next to him on the podium but he cheated. Yep, we should all be so lucky to be that outdated.
by Mystere on 26 March 2010 - 23:03
Actually, I would be happy to just still be active in the sport, when I get to his age, and still be able to get around on my own as well. 
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