Importance of Vita C, Pls help. - Page 3

Hodie , is it possible your not looking in the right place for the right words ?? Vitamin C deficiency is called Scurvy , its been long known in ALL medical fields Human and Animal for century's.

The problem with United states standards - the Affco is that the dogs that are tested only stay on a food for 6 months, they are Adult dogs.. if they LIVE and don't loose weight then the food gets the AFFCO stamp . Does that make sense to you ?? Its been proven that people can Live off McDonald's High fat diet for a few months at a time , does that mean that long term its a good idea ?? NO .

Malnutrition means that an human/animal is not getting proper nutrition ... consider this.. Obese People have Malnutrition often.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18465178  

Here are Scurvy Studies in Dogs for your consideration.

http://www.belfield.com/pet_health_art9.php

"In large breeds of dogs, hip dysplasia, long considered an inherited birth defect, may be an easily controlled biochemical condition. The lesion in hip dysplasia appears to be merely poor-quality, low-strength collagen in the affected ligaments, caused by too little ascorbate for proper synthesis and maintenance of collagen. In eight litters from dysplastic German Shepard parents or parents that had produced dysplastic offsprings, there were no signs of hip dysplasia when the bitches were given mega doses of ascorbate during pregnancy and the pups were kept on a similar regimen until they reached young adulthood."

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/cgi/pdf_extract/135/2/485

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121416862/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

I supplement my dogs because they are not always on a NATURAL dog diet, a natural dog diet would be hunting for there food and eating everything fresh - including animal poop and grass at will . Dogs are also very opportunistic and would eat other things we would not even think they would , in the wild. Our dogs live in our house and are FORCED to eat what we put in there dishes.. Dry dog food is NOT EVER a complete diet because it lacks Enzymes, Probiotics, and often has terrible chemicals added .

This is the world we live in , and this is why I supplement . I rather do it and have good results than not do it and be sorry . At least if I am supplementing I am doing my best to prevent a future problem..


Whisper

 "supplement my dogs because they are not always on a NATURAL dog diet, a natural dog diet would be hunting for there food and eating everything fresh - including animal poop and grass at will . Dogs are also very opportunistic and would eat other things we would not even think they would , in the wild. Our dogs live in our house and are FORCED to eat what we put in there dishes.. Dry dog food is NOT EVER a complete diet because it lacks Enzymes, Probiotics, and often has terrible chemicals added . "


I agree.  I add probiotics and enzymes to their dry food for that very reason.  Enzymes are crucial, and lack of them is a major cause of disease, in animals and humans, IMHO.  If the digestive system is healthy, the body is healthy.

I really really want to go into Animal Nutrition some day , If I get my DVM I Promise all of you that I will go on to Study Scurvy in the GSD and try to find out if its geneticly predisposed.

Whisper

PS here is one more really good one with TUNS of  referances
http://www.arthrix.com/phil_brown.htm

No, I am not looking in the wrong places. Scurvy is caused by a Vit C deficiency.  And your argument does not hold water for a lot of reasons.

1. Dogs have been domesticated now for more than 15,000 years. Over that time period, they have evolved to eat differently than wild canids. Dogs, unlike humans who develop scurvy because of serious Vit. C deficiencies in their diet, do NOT need extra Vit C. Dogs, if they have a healthy liver,  synthesize it. Humans cannot do so.
2. Dogs who are healthy, just like humans, do NOT need enzymes and probiotics and all the crap those who develop and market them would have you believe. For almost all supplements in the U.S., most are a scam and anyone who works even a little at learning will see this. A dog with EPI needs enzymes because something is wrong with the enzymes a health dog would produce. The same is true of people. Health people do not need enzymes. Lacking enzymes contributes to certain SPECIFIC conditions in humans and animal, but is NOT a major cause of disease in either humans or animals, including dogs.
3. IF your dog was wild, depending on where it lived in the world and what its' diet consisted of,  would likely not be ingesting a lot of vitamin C.
4. Nutritional deficiencies in morbidly obese patients is something quite different than what we are talking about here. People are morbidly obese for a variety of reasons and, of course, some will be deficient in vitamins and minerals because of what they eat. That does not mean anything relative to what we are talking about here. Healthy dogs are NOT deficient in Vit. C.
5. The belfield article is very, very old and is not supported with real science and current studies on HD.
6. The article you cite on Scurvy was published in 1941 and is has been long supplanted with much better literature on scurvy, its' causes and treatment. But again, scurvy is a deficiency in Vit. C, and canines who are healthy are not deficient, nor are humans who eat a balanced diet and are healthy.

I know quite well about how research is conducted into what is and is not established required daily intake for canine vitamins and minerals. More research that will be done and added, but there is NO recommendation to supplement Vit. C in canines by any standard setting organization in any country of the world. 

As for all the "terrible chemicals" that abound....sorry, but this is not my view of chemistry in the world. Further, many, many of the substances so many here think are chemicals and so terrible do, in fact,  exist in nature, in one form or another. Without chemistry life would be very different. 

So believe what you like. Do as you like, but the science is simply not there to back up what you say.

Natural dog diet,
Since the domestication of dogs they have lived from their masters scraps.
And as Stephanitz said they should do well on such a diet.
So..... it's up to master to feed them well.



Moons.

OK all you vitamin guru's;  which vegi's are most beneficial to the eyes?  Human and canine??

Cucumbers sliced thin and some soft music.

ha, ha, very funny, I like  you moons, one of my favorite dogs was named Moon;  seems to fit you well.  Nan

If you've ever seen the moon reflecting across water on a glorious night you know my name.
Anyway I'm not a nutritionist or a guru, just like my stuff as natural as I can keep it.
I think your born with the eyes you will live with and there are more things that can harm them than there are things that can improve them.

Lutein(egg yolks, spinach, broccoli,) Beta Carotene( orange vegetables such as carrots and sweet potatoes), and the Omega 3 fatty acids are good for vision. 

Since I changed my diet to incorporate more Omega 3, my eye sight improved drastically, back to what they were.  No guff.