Dulles Airport K-9 in training (Mali) attacks child - Page 3

There are no perfectly good airplanes but yes, it would appear that we are both adrenaline junkies.

I know I'm going to catch some heat for this, but some of the high volume wokring dog breeders and trainers just crank these dogs out.. especially malinois folk, in my opinion. A lot of these dogs are rejects from early tournament training, and have bite and prey (toy) training. I've heard that the bigger kennels actually have row upon row of stacked metal crates, or some s0ort of large built in units, designed for one purpose, to keep the dog contained and actually in a state of sensory deprivation. The dogs only get out to work, and that is OK, but they need more than biting and prey work. Dogs which will be used in and around the public need also to be very well socialised and habituated to everything they will encounter, including small, hyperactive, shrieking children. Kids don't know better than to run up to a strange dog to hug him. A dog that has not been conditioned to this, and which is hot in bitework or certified neutral to friendly strangers and children should not be in the public.

There is a disturbing pattern of dog hanging ("lynching") and helicoptering being used by law enforcement, and the first time a trainer blows it and does it in a busy place like this, with so many people nowadays having cameras and cellphones to take video, it's going to be bad. All of this crap started when the volume dog brokers (pimps) started to crank out as many green dogs as they could. All the dogs had to do was bite, and then the broker buys them and quickly flips them on down the line. Not long and they end up with an equally green K9 officer, perhaps. Since the dogs like this are all cranked up and only know to bite, they end up being brutally hanged, every time they screw up. In reality, the dog was never given the foundation time to function in a civilian environment  (time is money and no time to waste in getting these dogs sold and on the street.)

My good dog, Candy von der Knappenmühle, SchH3 was doing a demo and holding a very large man, waiting for the rebite, and VERY intense, when a little tiny girl in a pink ruffly dress came running up in her little patent shoes with taps and threw her arms around his neck and hugged him as hard as she could. She was only about five years old. Neither my dog or I even knew her, or knew what was about to happen. I was never prouder of my dog, Candy. He did not do one thing to hurt her. He didn't even react to her. He just kept his eyes on the bad guy. And this was no sleeve happy dog. He was looking that guy right in the eyes, and ready for a fight. This is not the only time Candy showed me what good character and judgement he had. He also befriended a lost autistic girl and kept her focused and calm until her father came looking for her, when we were camping. I am very cautious with my dogs, seldom take them off leash in public, and almost never let anyone pet them, but I learned with Candy (a SchH3 male), that I could trust him implicitly to never do the wrong thing. That dog was everything our breed (the GSD) is about, in my opinion. Not surprisingly, his breed survey and that of his father (Grand vom Ritterberg) recommended these dogs for improving temperament.

There are sometimes harder biting, faster dogs with more manic intensity in their man work, but I want a well rounded dog.. not just a biting machine. And, believe me, I HAVE owned some real man-stoppers who would die fighting, and could not be touched by strangers. But, I would never put one of them to work in a crowded area like this. You can control the dog to a great extent, but you cannot control all of the circumstances, and you certainly cannot control the behavior of humans.

Phil, what does that matter? I'm on the "German Shepherd dog" part of this website....so thats why I referred to that as "our breed" being most who comment on this have GSDs.  I never go to other parts of this site.    And for who looks like who.....the really dark sable one looks exactly like mine....or the other way around.  I was just stating that though, nothing important about it.

Customs had some similar instances with Mals and stopped using them in airports I think they may have stopped using them altogether

DDR, You may be suprised to know that there are dogs that
seem to have protection instinct for children and women.
I had a Rott that was this way,  without any training.  And
There was two Rotts in Santa Barbra who heard a 2 year old
crying and jumped the fence to protect her. She was sitting the middle
of the street  and the dogs were lying down next to her. The police
were perplexed how to get the little girl away from the Rotts. True
story was in the paper. So it is not beyond  the breeder to use this trait..
I have had all the protection  breeds, and I don't see any reason to think less of
the Malinois. You have a lot more biteing problems in areas that don't have
proper training available.   JLP

Apparently Customs hasn't stopped using the Malinois,,,,,,,as this was a Custom's dog.  The way I see this problem is, this dog was still in the training phase of it's career and was set up to fail.  It has, at least for a Customs application.  I would be almost willing to bet the farm that this handler was a first time handler or possibly even a first time dog owner.  I have been involved with the selection process before and in many cases departments select handlers that have never even owned a dog prior to their interview.  A Malinois should not be placed with a green handler.  Whoever was in charge of this training exercise as well as the handler are the ones at fault here and the dog will pay the price.  Personally?  I would rather not have the dogs placed in these types of situations.  Egos take over when it comes to selection of breeds for work as evidenced by all of the chippy banter in previous posts.  "My breed is the preferred breed for police work" yada, yada, yada.  New handlers have no business with these dogs and I'll be the first one to say it.  I have had Malinois for just about 20 years now and enjoy the breed and it's quirky traits and I wish they would lose popularity.  The breed would be better off without the assembly line production that has become the norm.  Bottom line, things like this are bad for working dogs in general and definitely act as fuel on the fire for the anti-dog legislation folk no matter what the breed. 

The little girl ended up getting 20 stitches in her side... =(  Very upsetting...  I own a Mali, I have so many people that say you should breed her...  she is a prey monster, so bad that I will not let either of my kids play with her, not that I think that she would "attack" them, she is a very loving dog and loves them, but she is entirely too fast with the ball or the tug, and I know it would not be pretty, she has accidently gotten me a few times or I should say I was not fast enough a few times, they can play fetch all day long with the shepherds, but the Mali is for me only to play with.  I see too many people breeding and selling Mals to companion homes, and I'm sorry but anyone who owns/knows  Mali's, knows that they are too much for just a family pet!  I would never breed her in a million years!!!  It is sad, I would like to know the outcome of this, why the dog bit the child to begin with, and what is going to happen to the dog...

A Malinois should not be placed with a green handler.

Thats breed generalizing just as ranted and raved about in you post phil.

Also, what dog would you prefer to go to a green handler? Also how does a green handler\owner get experience without a dog?How did you get your start into the working breeds, trained for years to become a profficient trainer/handler before owning one? I think its BS to segregate breeds, as many say Mali's arent for newbies, well ive got news for you a GSD is no less of a danger in the wrong hands or any other working breed.l how many border collies bit people last year?  I think the criteria for the handler and dog to go on active duty should be critiqued heavier, harder tests, strict no-nonsense assessments and both must pass full qualls before ever setting foot in an operational enviroment, and probationary status with senior handlers present until OJT is complete.

I personally think it is the structure of training that is the fault here. Many PD/Federal agencies/etc... lack funding and knowledge to properly train the handlers and dogs(JIM NOT ALL before you break my balls). Many also lack the structure within there training program for both partners and incidents occur. If this dog had not been field ready, why was he in the field? Shoudlnt he still be working through his qualls? Shouldnt he be temperament tested previous to working? Shouldnt the handler have passed his handling qualls before being in the field? ETC>>>>